Outer Ring Road - 1948

[mike142sl]

Apparently there were plans to build an outer ring road around the City in 1948. The scheme cropped up several times after that and the route was to follow what is now Hallamshire Road, which as a result was built wide enough to take a dual carriageway. The plan as we all know never came to be and Hallamshire Road now has a very big grass verge instead.

Does anyone have the original plans? I am fascinated to know where it was proposed to go through the Mayfield and Porter valleys and imagine what it might have looked like today.

[RichardB]

Remarkably useless ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sheffield_Outer_Ring_Road_(1948).gif

[Bayleaf]

I don't know the whole route but I do know it was planned to cross Ringinglow Road at the junction with Common Lane then Follow Common Lane. There was to be a roundabout at the junction.

The fact it never came to pass accounts for the many rat runs across the valley.

There's a bit more information

[hilldweller]

I don't know the whole route but I do know it was planned to cross Ringinglow Road at the junction with Common Lane then Follow Common Lane. There was to be a roundabout at the junction.

The fact it never came to pass accounts for the many rat runs across the valley.

There's a bit more information

Looking at the 1948 map it would appear to follow part of Ivy Cottage lane and then across the fields to link up with School Green Lane, Moorcroft Road, then Hallamshire Road, then follow the route of the old water conduit to Carsick Hill Road. It would then cross Sandygate Road and follow Coldwell Lane, run down Den Bank, loop below St. Anthony Road, and run down through Walkley Bank to Malin Bridge, follow Holme Lane, Bradfield Road, Penistone Road and join on to Herries Road.

If the intention was to dual carriage the entire road it would have required the demolition of large amounts of expensive property but that wouldn't have caused the council of the day to lose any sleep.

HD

[DaveH]

Remarkably useless ... http://en.wikipedia....Road_(1948).gif

Yes Richard,

The small size and low resolution of this map make it almost unreadable and therefore "remarkably useless"

What a pity, Wikepedia usually serve us better than this.

[hilldweller]

Yes Richard,

The small size and low resolution of this map make it almost unreadable and therefore "remarkably useless"

What a pity, Wikepedia usually serve us better than this.

It appears that this map is reproduced from a copy of Sheffield Replanned which is now out of copyright according to Whikiwotsits.

There used to be copies of that book in the Local studies.

Perhaps somewhere in Sheffield Archives there are some more detailed studies but local authorities always seem to be a bit vague about such things until they are firmed up.

There were certainly public notices posted up around St. Anthony's when the route below there was formally abandoned, perhaps there were notifications elsewhere along the proposed route.

The notices made mention of a "planning blight" being lifted.

Although the map is small scale it appears to be relatively easy to work out the actual route.

HD

[DaveH]

It appears that this map is reproduced from a copy of Sheffield Replanned which is now out of copyright according to Whikiwotsits.

There used to be copies of that book in the Local studies.

Perhaps somewhere in Sheffield Archives there are some more detailed studies but local authorities always seem to be a bit vague about such things until they are firmed up.

There were certainly public notices posted up around St. Anthony's when the route below there was formally abandoned, perhaps there were notifications elsewhere along the proposed route.

The notices made mention of a "planning blight" being lifted.

Although the map is small scale it appears to be relatively easy to work out the actual route.

HD

The council planning committee being deliberately vague about the route until it is all firmed up

Now where have I heard that one before

Oh yes, the proposed route of the Supertram from the town centre to Halfway ;-)

[mike142sl]

Thanks, I had found the remarkably useless map and was hoping someone on here might have got a more usable scan. Might go have a furtle in the Library one day.

[mike142sl]

Looking a bit more closely, If it was to run along Common Lane it looks like it then follows Ivy Cottage Lane down into the valley, then ploughs through Forge Dam !!! before rising up the north side of the valley around the back of the houses on School Green Lane to join what is now Moorcroft Rd. (which at the top is also wide enough for dual carriageway). Can you imagine the outcry of the proposal through Forge Dam now?

[Bayleaf]

Don't know if I've posted this before, but many moons ago I did a degree with the OU, and one module included some work on town planning. The lecturer was head of the department at the then Poly, and according to him, when Sheffield wanted to build an estate of flats,( in the 60's?) they had two plans to choose from, and almost on the toss of a coin they decided on Gleadless Valley and not the Porter Valley. The rest is history...

[DaveH]

Yes Richard,

The small size and low resolution of this map make it almost unreadable and therefore "remarkably useless"

What a pity, Wikepedia usually serve us better than this.

I can make it bigger again, - but I can't put back the lost detail and resolution that would make it fully readable again

[Bayleaf]

Went into Local Studies today to try to copy the Ring Rd map. It had to be fetched up from the stack, and when it arrived to be honest it didn’t help much. I copied it but had to sign a form which forbids it being uploaded to a website.

However... while I was waiting the assistant showed me another volume on the open shelves, “Sheffield, a Civic Survey and suggestions towards a Development Plan”, and it’s a goldmine. Published 1924, but some of the data predates 1921.

But it seems from reading it that the ring road plan dates from this report, and it does actually list the proposed route. So the part Mike’s interested in reads as follows:

“Nevertheless, from Penistone Road, near the Don at Owlerton round through Brightside to Abbeydale Road on the Sheaf at Beauchief a very tolerable half-Ring, of considerable undulation, it is true, is obtainable and indeed at this moment in a fair way to be considered already obtained. The importance of this half-Ring , for the two-fold purpose of rendering unbuilt-on land for houses accessible to the Lower Don Valley and for allowing among other things through traffic to avoid the centre and to relieve Attercliffe Road, need hardly be emphasised.

The completion of this half-Ring on the west, though less obvious, is indicated in the following description.

Starting from Owlerton a new length of road crosses open fields to the river, where a new bridge carries it on to the bridge under the railway near Rawson’s Dam: it then follows the valley bottom , climbing up to Back Lane. The route next pursues Norwood Lane, and Rushby Street crossing Carlisle Street East, and then by Hawke Street to Attercliffe Common.

A short new section is wanted passing Carbrook Recreation Ground, after which Greenland Road is followed and another new section joins up to Staniforth Road.

From this point a fine stretch of the new Ring has been constructed, Prince of Wales Road to Intake. This will form the back bone of the large Corporation Housing Scheme...

From here it passes close to Gleadless, then through land chiefly outside the city boundary to Norton. Leaving Norton the road skirts Chancet Wood and joins Abbey Lane.

From the junction at Abbeydale Road and Abbey Lane a road branches off tangentially passing through Whirlow and Ringinglow and finally, after connecting with Redmires Road by a junction from near Peat Farm, reaches the Manchester Road by the winding road from the Long Causeway."

And here’s Mike’s bit!

"The Ring Road leaves Abbeydale Road by a new route, already decided on, through Ecclesall Woods to Ecclesall Road; a new road from here joining it to Common Lane, thence it proceeds along an old drive widened to a serviceable road until it approaches the Porter Brook.

Here, to avoid the deep dip to the present bridge it will be necessary to make a new bridge at a higher level and having a more direct connection with Brookhouse Hill. A widened and improved Back Lane and Carsick Hill Road carry the circuit to Sandygate. A new road, which will require careful engineering, connects Sandygate to the Rivelin Valley Road. After using the latter for a short stretch it joins a new road from Malin Bridge by-passing the car-route; the circuit is completed by a length of widened road, ending up on Penistone Road.”

From that it sounds as if there could have been two major routes across the valley, one along Fulwood Lane and the Ring Road down through Fulwood.

The “old drive” to the Porter Brook is presumably Ivy Cottage Lane.

“By-passing the car-route “ presumably means the tram route.

The Porter Valley would indeed have been a different place! and if they went ahead with the “ as well...

This is the best I could do from the 1948 report. Since it's already on the internet...

Incidentally, in the front of the 1948 report there was this;

The form I had to sign said reproduction would require the permission of the head of lacal studies and the copyright owner. If this copy belongs to Sheffield Newspapers presumably they could give permission for reproduction. I enquired about the 'loan' bit and was told they had several copies so it was worth asking.

[Bayleaf]

Elsewhere in the 1924 report is this;

In planning the new roads, a maximum steepness of 1 in 15 has been aimed at; but in one or two instances a grade of 1 in 12 has been found inevitable. But it must be remembered that with the increase in motor traffic there is a consequent decrease in horse-drawn vehicles, so that the steeper gradient is not so detrimental.

Traffic counts taken in 1923 by the City Surveyor, the following are the proportions of motor to horse-drawn vehicles in some of the streets:

The Wicker... motors, heavy and light...73% Horse-drawn vehicles...27%

High Street...ditto...92%.....................................ditto ...8%

Attercliffe Road...88%.....................................................12%

Waingate............91%......................................................9%

Ecclesall Road.....96%......................................................4%

“It is interesting to note that , with one exception, the streets with 25% or more of horse traffic are comparatively level, and are mostly central streets. Animal traction is being confined more and more to short journeys over easy gradients, while motors are used for journeys of substantial length and for hill-work”.

[DaveH]

A short new section is wanted passing Carbrook Recreation Ground, after which Greenland Road is followed and another new section joins up to Staniforth Road.

From this point a fine stretch of the new Ring has been constructed, Prince of Wales Road to Intake. This will form the back bone of the large Corporation Housing Scheme...

Interesting.

In the 1930's my grandad worked for the Corporation as a road builder and one of the roads he built, amongst others, was Prince of Wales Road.

He always refered to it as the "Outer Ring Road" even though I had pointed out to him that the bus that went down it said "Inner Ring Road" on it

Perhaps what you have found in this book explains why.

He built part of the outer ring road, as proposed, which was never completed so the only ring route in the City, which could laterly contain Prince of Wales Road, would just be called the "Ring Road", or as it eventually all lay within the City boundary, the "Inner Ring Road"

[mike142sl]

Thanks for making the effort Bayleaf, it would be great to get the various permissions. BUT, just one bit of confusion?

"From the junction at Abbeydale Road and Abbey Lane a road branches off tangentially passing through Whirlow and Ringinglow and finally,

after connecting with Redmires Road by a junction from near Peat Farm,

reaches the Manchester Road by the winding road from the Long Causeway."

I suspect there may have been more than one farm with this name but the one I know is at the bottom of Roper Hill - somewhat West of these descriptions. The winding road had me thinking of Wyming Brook Drive but presumably is Coldwell Lane. Long Causeway is now Sandygate Rd and Redmires Rd.

[History dude]

Manor Library used to have a good selection of local history books, two of which were the 1924 devolopment plan by Abercrombie and The District Planning Scheme 1931, by the same chap. I did take some images from the book, mainly the Manor Estate plan and one of the central station, but none of the proposed road.

Most of these local history books were either stolen or sold off - cheap! So I doubt they will still have either, but the code was 711.409 oversize, if anyone wants to check there.

On Prince of Wales Road construction. The Star (Sheffield Newspapers) in one of thier books have the road being built in an aerial shot of 1921. There's no Manor estate, just a single road, passing through the fields.

So your Grandfather (DaveH) must have worked on it in the 1920's - not 30's. In fact the aerial photo's on picture Sheffield of the Manor show that the only thing being built were the red bricked houses that still front onto the Road today. And those photos were taken before 1929.

Also though he might have been working for the council, he must have been on the dole. As the road was part the "Distress Committes" scheme to solve the unemployment problem. Prince of Wales was the 1st of thier schemes and they would have got 50% of the money from the Ministry of Labour. It was opened in October 1921, but wasn't fully finished as by March 1922 they had spent £66,708 on it.

The following year they started construction on Ridegway Road. By March 1924, they had spent £29,000 on that.

Information from Sheffield Growth of a City, H Keeble Hawson.

[Bayleaf]

Thanks for making the effort Bayleaf, it would be great to get the various permissions. BUT, just one bit of confusion?

"From the junction at Abbeydale Road and Abbey Lane a road branches off tangentially passing through Whirlow and Ringinglow and finally,

after connecting with Redmires Road by a junction from near Peat Farm,

reaches the Manchester Road by the winding road from the Long Causeway."

I suspect there may have been more than one farm with this name but the one I know is at the bottom of Roper Hill - somewhat West of these descriptions. The winding road had me thinking of Wyming Brook Drive but presumably is Coldwell Lane. Long Causeway is now Sandygate Rd and Redmires Rd.

I agree Mike. I assume that after Ringinlow the route would follow Fulwood Lane and hence to Peat farm (The one by Roper Hill is the only one I know of). My first thought was the winding road was Wyming Brook, the other route includes description refers to Ivy Cottage Lane as 'an old drive'. But Wyming Brook Drive would bring it down near the Rivelin dams. We tend to think of Manchester Road as ending at the junction with Rivelin Valley Road, after which it's just the A57, but has this always been the case?

These are two different projects. The report was a survey prepared by a Patrick Abercrombie from the Department of Civic Design at the University of Liverpool 'on the scheme prepared for the Development Committee in collaboration with R.H.Mattocks.'

The report used data and existing plans from the Council. It reads to me that there were two possible schemes, one referred to as the 'half-Ring' and the other the Ring Road, requiring more work than the former. A route round the head of the valley would avoid disputes with residents. It's interesting that this is now one of the well-used rat runs, albeit down Gorse lane, but that's because the suggestion via Peat farm etc was never implemented.

The route via Common Lane etc would have been more feasible when suggested in the early 1920's or earlier. Unfortunately by 1948 someone had built most of Fulwood slap across the route!

[hilldweller]

. A route round the head of the valley would avoid disputes with residents. It's interesting that this is now one of the well-used rat runs, albeit down Gorse lane, but that's because the suggestion via Peat farm etc was never implemented.

I agree that it would appear the schemes relate to two seperate projects and the winding lane relates to Wyming Brook Drive.

Incidently the name Gorse Lane only relates to the last short bit of the road at the Bole Hill end, it starts off as Andwell Lane, changes to Douse Croft Lane before it becomes Gorse Lane.

I read some years ago that the original road started around the top of Greenhouse Lane, ran diagonally across the fields behind Greenhouse Farm and joined Douse Croft Lane near the bottom of the valley.

Why it was moved I've no idea but perhaps it was at the time of the enclosures.

HD

[hilldweller]

All this talk of alternative ring roads puts me in mind of the books/TV programme by David Nobbs called A Bit of a Do. During that the council debate whether to construct the Inner Outer Ring Road or the Outer Inner Ring Road.

Perhaps in Sheffield's case it should be called the Arc Road (part of the circumference of a circle).

[Bayleaf]

I agree that it would appear the schemes relate to two seperate projects and the winding lane relates to Wyming Brook Drive.

Incidently the name Gorse Lane only relates to the last short bit of the road at the Bole Hill end, it starts off as Andwell Lane, changes to Douse Croft Lane before it becomes Gorse Lane.

I read some years ago that the original road started around the top of Greenhouse Lane, ran diagonally across the fields behind Greenhouse Farm and joined Douse Croft Lane near the bottom of the valley.

Why it was moved I've no idea but perhaps it was at the time of the enclosures.

HD

As you'll see from the maps below, the lane's changed its name a few times. The diagonal former lane is still visible on the ground as a slight holloway. It shows up on Google earth, not on the latest version but if you go back to the 1999 version you can see it crossing the field to come out on Harrop Lane by the trees.

Google Earth 1999

After Harrison 1637

Fairbank plan prior to Upper Hallam Enclosures

[DaveH]

So your Grandfather (DaveH) must have worked on it in the 1920's - not 30's. In fact the aerial photo's on picture Sheffield of the Manor show that the only thing being built were the red bricked houses that still front onto the Road today. And those photos were taken before 1929.

Also though he might have been working for the council, he must have been on the dole. As the road was part the "Distress Committes" scheme to solve the unemployment problem.

Could well have been in the 1920's as he worked for the council all his working life from leaving school during WW1 to early retirement on health grounds in the late 1950's. Far from being on the dole he was working for the council works department while also having a second job as a professional footballer between 1925 and 1930, although footballers pay at that time was not what it is today and he certainly couldn't afford to give up the day job.

[History dude]

Perhaps then he was in charge of the unemployed people who were used to construct the road?

[DaveH]

Perhaps then he was in charge of the unemployed people who were used to construct the road?

I don't think he was in charge of anyone, he just did the work as far as I know.

However, like many elder relatives he is no longer around and had he still been here (he would be well over 100 now) this is one of many things I would love to talk to him about again and get some further answers to questions like this.

Isn't it always the case that you never think to ask and document these things carefully at the time, and then regret it when they are no longer there to ask. :(

It the same with my dad as well as my grandad, and although my mum is still alive her memory isn't as sharp as it used to be.

[History dude]

The reason I asked that DaveH is that these roads were really job creation schemes, designed to get unemployed men working. If your grandfather was already employed, it's seems likely to me that he would have had some knowledge of construction of roads, in a multitude of men who had none. Indeed they might not have been that keen on doing this type of work. It's quite possible he was a ganger, not really paid any better, but still a cut above those from the dole.

Him being a ganger would make more sense to me since he was employed by the council before the schemes started. Rather then being just one of the workers with a shovel and pick, which the lads from the dole would be. As him doing just seems to defeat the idea of getting people off the dole to do the work. Unless of course he was on the dole and did get the job on the council, when these schemes started, but didn't want people to know that.

[DaveH]

The reason I asked that DaveH is that these roads were really job creation schemes, designed to get unemployed men working. If your grandfather was already employed, it's seems likely to me that he would have had some knowledge of construction of roads, in a multitude of men who had none. Indeed they might not have been that keen on doing this type of work. It's quite possible he was a ganger, not really paid any better, but still a cut above those from the dole.

Him being a ganger would make more sense to me since he was employed by the council before the schemes started. Rather then being just one of the workers with a shovel and pick, which the lads from the dole would be. As him doing just seems to defeat the idea of getting people off the dole to do the work. Unless of course he was on the dole and did get the job on the council, when these schemes started, but didn't want people to know that.

He could have been a "ganger" as I have heard him use that term before without really knowing what it meant, - I assumed it just meant he was one of a team of so many men (a gang) that worked together, he did have knowledge of steam road rolling and I got my interest in steam rollers from him, although he never learned to drive or held a driving licence, however, without him being here to ask I cannot be sure or give a definate answer about him being a ganger.