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William Stones, Cannon Brewery


Guest farrtj
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You know I've always thought of Stones as a salty beer. Damn it you're onto something there. I don't know about any other chemicals, but they definitely put salt into Stones I reckon.

As salt makes you thirsty, as the body requires more (fresh) water to flush the excess salt out of the body and excrete this could be why they put it in beer (or is that just me being cynical?

If you drink sea water (which is very salty) you become more thirsty so drink more, if this is also salty a cycle is set up where you constantly need to drink more and more.

Now, as selling beer is the brewerys business, why not put salt in the beer to increase thirsty so that the customers will have "a quick pint", which they will then need to follow with another, ...and another, ....and another, ....

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Dilute Orange and salt tablets at Batchelors in the drying plant ...

I was aware of the salt tablets they provided.

As the drink they gave you to dissolve them in were fairly poor and foul tasting perhaps some employees chose to dissolve them in a pint of beer instead.

Some pubs always seemed to be full of steel workers at times coinciding with the end of working shifts.

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I was aware of the salt tablets they provided.

As the drink they gave you to dissolve them in were fairly poor and foul tasting perhaps some employees chose to dissolve them in a pint of beer instead.

Some pubs always seemed to be full of steel workers at times coinciding with the end of working shifts.

There was a pub directly behind the Stocksbridge Works Billet Mill. It was situated a few yards across the road. What did the works do to deal with the problem ?

They bought the pub and demolished it ! Problem solved :)

HD

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Isotonics to you, Pal :P

As salt makes you thirsty, as the body requires more (fresh) water to flush the excess salt out of the body and excrete this could be why they put it in beer (or is that just me being cynical?

If you drink sea water (which is very salty) you become more thirsty so drink more, if this is also salty a cycle is set up where you constantly need to drink more and more.

Now, as selling beer is the brewerys business, why not put salt in the beer to increase thirsty so that the customers will have "a quick pint", which they will then need to follow with another, ...and another, ....and another, ....

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There was a pub directly behind the Stocksbridge Works Billet Mill. It was situated a few yards across the road. What did the works do to deal with the problem ?

They bought the pub and demolished it ! Problem solved :)

HD

Not a good move for the health of their workers though! :(

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Isotonics to you, Pal :P

The tablets would be isotonic, but drinking excess salt, or losing too much salt would put you out of isotonic balance, and then osmosis of cell fluids can have some nasty effects as well.

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I have to say that I am surprised at what some of you say about "Stones" i.e giving people the squits and such Ha Ha.

As someone who started drinking in the early 60s I was always of the opinion it was "Wards" that did that,and I thought "Ward" always had a smell to it that put me off it. Regarding the chemical taste as some of you put it, I don't know if it was chemicals or what, but it certainly changed after they put new vats in at Rutland road, not sure what year it was. Also, I lived just up the road from the brewery and I can say for definite you could certainly smell it when they were brewing, not as strong a smell as "Tennants" at Ladys Bridge but you could smell it all the same.

"Stones" now is nothing like it was in the 50s and early to mid 60s, it is a lot lighter coloured now, even though it has always been a light coloured beer.

Happy drinking lads :)

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I started drinking beer in 1970 and the known brand that was noted for giving you the squirts was Wards,

in fact many said "If you want a good clear out, go and have a few pints of Wards"

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As someone who started drinking in the early 60s I was always of the opinion it was "Wards" that did that,and I thought "Ward" always had a smell to it that put me off it.

I started drinking beer in 1970 and the known brand that was noted for giving you the squirts was Wards,

in fact many said "If you want a good clear out, go and have a few pints of Wards"

I agree with both chalky and Steve here.

Wards was the one to avoid for me.

I think I have said previously that a couple of pints of Wards left me feeling as though my stomach was dragging on the floor it felt so heavy

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"Stones" now is nothing like it was in the 50s and early to mid 60s, it is a lot lighter coloured now, even though it has always been a light coloured beer.

For "lighter coloured" could this imply "watered down"? :o

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I think I have said previously that a couple of pints of Wards left me feeling as though my stomach was dragging on the floor it felt so heavy

Have you got short legs Dave, or is that otherwise known as 'being legless' ?

he he

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Have you got short legs Dave, or is that otherwise known as 'being legless' ?

he he

Now you mention it Steve, I could have been legless! he he

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For "lighter coloured" could this imply "watered down"? :o

I was told that they reduced the strength at one point and that it was to do with some tax or other that they had to pay.

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I was told that they reduced the strength at one point and that it was to do with some tax or other that they had to pay.

There might be some element of truth in that story, as the following abstract from the HMRC site would suggest, though I had never heard that myself.

A bit long winded, but it does at least demonstrate as to just how much of the cost of a pint of beer is made up of duty.

Beer Duty rates

Most beers are charged General Beer Duty at £18.57 per hectolitre per cent of alcohol. For example, if you release a batch of 5 hectolitres of beer of a strength 4.0 per cent ABV, your Beer Duty liability would be £371.40 (£18.57 × 5 × 4.0).

High strength beer

High Strength Beer Duty is charged on beer that exceeds 7.5 per cent ABV and this is in addition to the General Beer Duty. This additional charge is set at 25 per cent of the General Beer Duty rate. For example, if you release a batch of 5 hectolitres of beer of a strength 8.0 per cent ABV, your Beer Duty liability is £928.40:

General Beer Duty - £18.57 × 5 × 8 = £742.80

High Strength Beer Duty - £18.57 × 25% = £4.64 × 5 × 8 = £185.60

Lower strength beer

Lower strength beer which is more than 1.2 per cent ABV but not more than 2.8 per cent ABV is set at 50 per cent of the General Beer Duty rate. For example, if you release a batch of 5 hectolitres of beer of a strength 2.8 per cent ABV, your Beer Duty liability will be £130.06:

Lower Strength Beer Duty - £18.57 × 50% = £9.29 × 5 × 2.8 = £130.06

Beer Duty rates from 1 October 2011 Type of beer Amount of ABV Rate per hectolitre per cent of alcohol Low strength beer More than 1.2% to 2.8% £9.29 General beer 2.9% to 7.5% £18.57 High strength beer More than 7.5% £4.64

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I was told that they reduced the strength at one point and that it was to do with some tax or other that they had to pay.

So, whatever they did to reduce the strength (there are other more acceptable alternatives to watering down) could be responsible for the lightening of the colour.

For example, reducing the amount of malt in the wort would reduce the amount of fermentable sugar and ultimately reduce the alcohol content. As malt is brown in colour, and gives beer its characteristic colour a reduction in it would lighten the colour.

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I was told that they reduced the strength at one point and that it was to do with some tax or other that they had to pay.

The ABV of Stones was reduced from 4.1% to 3.9% in 1992 when the way duty was levied was changed. Many other beers were reduced in ABV at the time (such as Webster's Yorkshire Bitter) in order to save money. The ABV was changed to 3.8% in August 1998 and then to 3.7% after it moved from the Cannon Brewery in April 1999, supposedly in response to customer demand. They probably thought they could sell more Stones if it was weaker, and I guess they didn't reduce the price when they lowered the ABV, even though ingredients and duty costs would be lower. The cask version was restored to its original ABV and recipe in August 2006, although the canned and keg versions remain at 3.7%. It's relatively easy for them to do this by the way, as Stones is high gravity brewed (or at least it certainly was when it was still brewed at the Cannon). That means that the beer was brewed to a high strength (say 9% ABV) and then simply watered down later on in the boil to the desired ABV. This has numerous cost and space advantages. So they simply added more water

Talking about possible adding salt to Stones, here are the official tasting notes for the beer:

"fragrant grapefruit-citrus hop aroma, [which] cuts through a characteristically sulphury background. The unusual salts balance ensures that the bitterness isn’t dry and lends to the moreishness of [the] bitter."

and for the cask version: "an aroma of hops, sulphur and grapefruit, with a salty, moreish and zesty taste"

I've never seen or heard of any other beer being described as salty! If you ask them though I doubt they'd want to admit to it.

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That means that the beer was brewed to a high strength (say 9% ABV) and then simply watered down later on in the boil to the desired ABV. This has numerous cost and space advantages. So they simply added more water

So they do water it down!! :angry::o:wacko:

But not in a "lets fiddle all our customers by watering the beer down to make it go further" sort of way, <_<

Oh no, instead we will make a "beer concentrate" a bit like fruit juice concentrates.

I'm suprised they don't put a label on it saying "dilute to taste" :unsure:

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Talking about possible adding salt to Stones, here are the official tasting notes for the beer:

"fragrant grapefruit-citrus hop aroma, [which] cuts through a characteristically sulphury background. The unusual salts balance ensures that the bitterness isn’t dry and lends to the moreishness of [the] bitter."

and for the cask version: "an aroma of hops, sulphur and grapefruit, with a salty, moreish and zesty taste"

I've never seen or heard of any other beer being described as salty! If you ask them though I doubt they'd want to admit to it.

The word salt here is plural implying that it is something more than just common salt (sodium chloride) and that it may contain other types of more beneficial salts.

Chemically salts are the products of acid neutralisation.

Given that there are lots of acids, and lots of things you can neutralise them with, that means there are lots of different salts, The word SALT actually describes a whole range of ionic compounds. However they all have a "salty" taste, hence the origin of the name.

I would not necessarily read these descriptions as meaning that the beer tastes like it has half a tub of SAXA dissolved in it.

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Talking about possible adding salt to Stones, here are the official tasting notes for the beer: "fragrant grapefruit-citrus hop aroma, [which] cuts through a characteristically sulphury background. The unusual salts balance ensures that the bitterness isn’t dry and lends to the moreishness of [the] bitter." and for the cask version: "an aroma of hops, sulphur and grapefruit, with a salty, moreish and zesty taste" I've never seen or heard of any other beer being described as salty! If you ask them though I doubt they'd want to admit to it.

Although I have known this to be true of Stones and certain other beers it seems strange to use it in promotional descriptions.

Sulphur does not taste nice, or smell nice, frequently having either an unpleasant "bad egg" smell (hydrogen sulphide) or a choking, acidic smell (sulphur dioxide)

Too most people it would be sulphur that spoils the beer.

Who would want to drink something that smells like the fumes from Mount Versuvius? :wacko:

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Although I have known this to be true of Stones and certain other beers it seems strange to use it in promotional descriptions.

Sulphur does not taste nice, or smell nice, frequently having either an unpleasant "bad egg" smell (hydrogen sulphide) or a choking, acidic smell (sulphur dioxide)

Too most people it would be sulphur that spoils the beer.

Who would want to drink something that smells like the fumes from Mount Versuvius? :wacko:

I think a slight whiff of sulphur can add to a beer's nose. Too much (and it doesn't take a lot for it to be too much) ruins a beer. I've had an awful pint of Marston's Pedigree that was all sulphur.

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I think a slight whiff of sulphur can add to a beer's nose. Too much (and it doesn't take a lot for it to be too much) ruins a beer. I've had an awful pint of Marston's Pedigree that was all sulphur.

Having worked with quite a lot of organosulphur compounds and realising that most of them have foul smells I don't really agree here, - unless the amounts are ridiculously small or it is one of the more acceptable organosulphurs (Onions and Garlic both owe there unique smell, taste and flavour to sulphur. The lacramatory effect of raw onion (it's ability to make the eyes sting and water) is also down to sulphur)

The sulphur equivalent of alcohol (ethanol) is a chemical called ethanethiol. In it the oxygen atom in alcohol has been replaced with sulphur which is in the same periodic group, Ethanethiol was once in the Guiness book of records as the Worlds strongest and worst smelling substance. It smells very strongly of (to me anyway) rotting cabbages, but must stronger, and you can't get rid of the smell which follows you around for weeks, even after multiple baths and showers and machine washing all your clothes. It is a horrible chemical to work with.

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My family claims that they are related to William Stones himself. Unfortunately, anyone who has tried to research back has found it difficult (my great uncle picked up the mantle, but he passed away in June of this year).

My grandmother's maiden name is Stones, and her grandfather was from Lincolnshire, but his decendants originated in the Doncaster region.

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Here are a set of Census returns for William Stones - the 1841 at Meeting House Lane is for his mum and sister, I don't know where William was at the time.

An entry from Sheffield Indexers:

Stones, William (of Sheffield, born 1826-12-29).

Baptised March 28, 1827, by E.Goodwin at Sheffield Parish Church, Church Street, Sheffield.

Parents name(s) are Eliza & Joseph (Cabinet case maker).

The Wikipedia entry for William seems to be incorrect regarding his early years - he is not one of the Queen Street Stones's, the family of six siblings being incorrect. However the very first post on this thread does ask for assistance in checking the Wiki article.

As he died a bachelor, I guess that making family connections to him will not be a straightforward business.

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