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The Under Gardener's Lodge- Norfolk Park


Guest shullie

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Guest shullie

Hi I am looking for any information, history, names of people who ever lived in the Under Gardener's lodge in Norfolk Park, on Norfolk park Road.

I'm fascinated by it, would love to know more about it.... I know when it was built and that's about it.

Any one on here know anything or about any of the families who lived there??

or where I can find out any more about it's history etc.

thanks

Shullie

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I believe this man was the gardener.

http://jusnews.shef.ac.uk/convergence_08/whittles-obituary

Charles Whittle

Hi I am looking for any information, history, names of people who ever lived in the Under Gardener's lodge in Norfolk Park, on Norfolk park Road.

I'm fascinated by it, would love to know more about it.... I know when it was built and that's about it.

Any one on here know anything or about any of the families who lived there??

or where I can find out any more about it's history etc.

thanks

Shullie

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Thomas Carter, park keeper, Norfolk Park Road.

Kelly's 1925.

On the 1854 map, Norfolk Park Road is named as Bell Vue Road,

don't know what year the road name was changed, but it was pre: 1894.

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Guest shullie

thanks, have those pics, and a few more on my search.... have spent the afternoon down at the local history library

re the previous inhabitants.. we had not got onto to the Kelly's - but good to know.. shall have a good look next week, but will fill in Thomas Carter's name.

I think Mr Whittle was a head gardener, and as such I think he lived in the Bigger house on Granville Road, and/or in Arbourthorne Cottages . The house on Norfolk Park road is the Under Gardeners.

We realised today that there must have been a name change at some time, we didn't get to the maps.. so shall make my search pre 1854 to believe, that is if the house existed before then. we were told it was around 1843.. but need to check more

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Guest shullie

Thanks, have checked them out.... I am confused as there seems to be a number of cottages on the Bell Vue Road too, I think I may go and check out the local history library and see if I can have a look at some of the maps. I did checked some of the earlier and later census, and found that sometimes it was listed as one of the Norfolk Park Lodges and some times Bell Vue Lodge /

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Thanks, have checked them out.... I am confused as there seems to be a number of cottages on the Bell Vue Road too, I think I may go and check out the local history library and see if I can have a look at some of the maps. I did checked some of the earlier and later census, and found that sometimes it was listed as one of the Norfolk Park Lodges and some times Bell Vue Lodge /

I agree shullie,

tried to work out what was where on maps

but it started to get even more confusing.

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I agree shullie,

tried to work out what was where on maps

but it started to get even more confusing.

Always been called Norfolk Park Lodge to me.

"Belle Vue" is a name more associated with either Manchester (where the old zoo used to be) or Doncaster rather than Sheffield.

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Always been called Norfolk Park Lodge to me.

"Belle Vue" is a name more associated with either Manchester (where the old zoo used to be) or Doncaster rather than Sheffield.

So you are not familliar with Bell Vue in Sheffield then Dave ?

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So you are not familliar with Bell Vue in Sheffield then Dave ?

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Seems to be spelt differently Bell rather than Belle

Manchester and Doncaster call theirs "BELLE VUE", which means, translated from the French "nice view", indicating I suppose a good viewpoint.

"BELL VUE" has no equivalent translation, as the French word for a bell is cloche.

So why was Norfolk Park Lodge called Bell Vue?

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Seems to be spelt differently Bell rather than Belle

Manchester and Doncaster call theirs "BELLE VUE", which means, translated from the French "nice view", indicating I suppose a good viewpoint.

"BELL VUE" has no equivalent translation, as the French word for a bell is cloche.

So why was Norfolk Park Lodge called Bell Vue?

My mistake, it is 'Belle Vue'

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My mistake, it is 'Belle Vue'

So Sheffield, Manchester and Doncaster all had a "Belle Vue". in English, a "nice view"

So why were all 3 of them in big industrial northern cities and named at a time when British industrial production was at its peak and well before the clean air act so that the view could hardly have been described as "nice" by any stretch of the imagination.

You would have expected open countryside and picturesque little rural villages being described as "Belle Vue", - not industrial towns.

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Guest shullie

I updated the Picture Sheffield link in an earlier post.

Here are another 2 picture sheffield ones which I don't think have been included yet.

No 1

No 2

I would be interested to see where on a map the house was....

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I would be interested to see where on a map the house was....

by SteveHB has the maps plus a link to the full OS map (#97 & 98) for that area.

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The first OS map lists the road as Norfolk Park Road, not Belle Vue. The road would have orginally gone to the Belle Vue house. Chances are it was renamed on the opening of the Park itself. Despite the implications of the French sounding name it was more likely named after the appearance of the area covered in Bell Pits. Indeed the house itself was first lived in by a man connected to the Duke's pit. The area also falls under the Bellhouse plaine mentioned in Harrison's Survey of 1637.

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The first OS map lists the road as Norfolk Park Road, not Belle Vue. The road would have orginally gone to the Belle Vue house. Chances are it was renamed on the opening of the Park itself. Despite the implications of the French sounding name it was more likely named after the appearance of the area covered in Bell Pits. Indeed the house itself was first lived in by a man connected to the Duke's pit. The area also falls under the Bellhouse plaine mentioned in Harrison's Survey of 1637.

That would make much more sense as a name to me history dude.

..and it would also mean that Steve's original, non-French spelling of Bell View would be correct

Bell View would merely imply that it was in direct line of sight Bell Pits, - sounds very reasonable to me, better than some very posh artificial French name.

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That would make much more sense as a name to me history dude.

..and it would also mean that Steve's original, non-French spelling of Bell View would be correct

Bell View would merely imply that it was in direct line of sight Bell Pits, - sounds very reasonable to me, better than some very posh artificial French name.

Think if I had or was to build and name a large house like the one mentioned,

the last thoughts I would have, would be to name it after any Bell Pits in that area.

Imagine asking some friends over, telling them that the house was so named

because it over looked some bell pits, I don't think that would impress many.

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Guest shullie

by SteveHB has the maps plus a link to the full OS map (#97 & 98) for that area.

Further up the road than the Lodge I am interested in....

as an aside I was wondering if anyone knew much about the chapel in what was the Duke of Norfolk's lodge for his guests.. which is next door to the park. I was told that there was once a rather lovely chapel there,. but have looked up the drive and can't see anything that resembles a small church etc...

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Think if I had or was to build and name a large house like the one mentioned,

the last thoughts I would have, would be to name it after any Bell Pits in that area.

Imagine asking some friends over, telling them that the house was so named

because it over looked some bell pits, I don't think that would impress many.

No but it would be a good honest down to Earth "what you see is what you get" name wouldn't it

Much better than pretentiously calling it "Belle Vue" (nice or beautiful view) when in fact all you can see in this "nice view" are the pits that it overlooks.

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Further up the road than the Lodge I am interested in.... as an aside I was wondering if anyone knew much about the chapel in what was the Duke of Norfolk's lodge for his guests.. which is next door to the park. I was told that there was once a rather lovely chapel there,. but have looked up the drive and can't see anything that resembles a small church etc...

I've never heard of any chapel of the Duke of Norfolk in the area around Norfolk Park. It would be odd to put up guests there too :mellow: He of course had the Farm to house guests, plus other houses. There is a chapel that belongs to the Duke still. However that's in City Road Cem. Last time I heard about that chapel it was derilict and boarded up.

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There is a chapel that belongs to the Duke still. However that's in City Road Cem. Last time I heard about that chapel it was derilict and boarded up.

Is this the one History Dude?

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I've never heard of any chapel of the Duke of Norfolk in the area around Norfolk Park. It would be odd to put up guests there too :mellow: He of course had the Farm to house guests, plus other houses. There is a chapel that belongs to the Duke still. However that's in City Road Cem. Last time I heard about that chapel it was derilict and boarded up.

Here is part of an article about The Farm, taken from the book 'Heeley and Thereabouts'

After he succeeded to the dukedom in 1856 Henry Granville, the 14th Duke,

converted the Farm into occasional residence for himself and his family,

adding a new dining room and domestic chapel over the gateway”.

SH link to .. &do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>&do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>

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Guest shullie

thanks for that Guys, so it's not in the Beech Hill, as I was told my a resident of one of the other other Lodges . Fascinating.

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