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RichardB

Jervis Lum

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Yes Dave the ariel photo shows nearly all of Jervis Lum wood,

also the route that the underground stream takes from Arbourthorne Pond before it appears in the Lum wood.

I must get over there and see if I can find it's source.

Feel free to use any of my photos on this site,

that's what their on for.

Steve ;-)

I have a feeling its source may be on the old Hurlfield school fields just at the side of where they have built the new Springs academy. This area of field always seems to be muddy, even in dry weather and when it does occasionally dry out the soil soon has that characteristic cracked "crazy paving" appearance that dried out waterlogged land has. Even the new school has not been built on this land, - is it too soft and wet? If this is the source perhaps "Springs Academy" (Myrtle Springs) is an appropriate name.

Myrtle Springs itself is further west still and plain talker has commented in a previous post of the wet land closer to and even on the other side of Arbourthorne Road.

I think the source may be on Hurlfield fields because this is the highest point, from here the land slopes away in every direction. On the other side of Hurlfield Road is the old water works building on what was Hagg Lane. The Hagg Lane tanks were placed here at this high point to provide water at the greatest pressure, a sort of natural water tower.

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Looking at SteveHB's map again reminded me of an old story. Before the Norfolk Park Estate was built and it was farmland.

Arbourthorne Road came to an abrupt end where it now meets Park Grange Road (at the current site of the Fellbrigg / Beacon), but it did extend beyond its junction with Fellbrigg Road by a few yards giving the impression that it was going to go somewhere.

At the other side of the estate was St. Aidens road which was also a dead end, it ran in from City Road to the edge of the quarry outside Norfolk Park and just stopped, again it went beyond Norfolk Park Avenue, the last road to join it, giving the impression it was going to go on somewhere.

The clue is in the original name of St. Aidens Road, - at one time it was called "Arbourthorne Road". was there plans to join the two ends up into an extended Arbourthorne Road which would run directly from City Road to the top of Hurlfield Road?

The old story I heard was that as the housing at the St. Aidens end was private and therefore "posh" and at the other end was "council" and therefore a bit rough, the residents on the St. aidens bit objected to it being joined and had the name of their bit altered to "St. Aidens Road" to disown the lower quality Arbourthorne. What a set of snobs!

A more likely and realistic reason for not connecting the two halves would have been the route through the Jervis Lum, those 2 small ponds are right in the way and the land which slopes down beyond is that wet boggy area, - not such a good idea then. The prop[osed route would have had to go through the quarry along the Park wall, past the park entrance, follow the route of the current Guildford Avenue a bit but then swing up that steep wet bank above Norfolk Park stream to meet the other Arbourthorne Road by going through those 2 small ponds.

When the estate was built, Arbourthorne Road just joined Park Grange Road. I can remember piles of building material being left at its dead end blocking it off for a while, some of it would be used to build the new estate but I bet some of it was used to fill those 2 ponds in. At the other end, St. Aidens Road took a sharp bend up the hill towards Spring Lane and Park Grange Road, to avoid both the quarry and that other piece of unbuilt land the "smouldering tip", an area of land also never built on until recently and for a time used as a football field. This land got its local name because it seemed to consist of mining slag which was always burning.

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Looking at SteveHB's map again reminded me of an old story. Before the Norfolk Park Estate was built and it was farmland.

Arbourthorne Road came to an abrupt end where it now meets Park Grange Road (at the current site of the Fellbrigg / Beacon), but it did extend beyond its junction with Fellbrigg Road by a few yards giving the impression that it was going to go somewhere.

At the other side of the estate was St. Aidens road which was also a dead end, it ran in from City Road to the edge of the quarry outside Norfolk Park and just stopped, again it went beyond Norfolk Park Avenue, the last road to join it, giving the impression it was going to go on somewhere.

The clue is in the original name of St. Aidens Road, - at one time it was called "Arbourthorne Road". was there plans to join the two ends up into an extended Arbourthorne Road which would run directly from City Road to the top of Hurlfield Road?

The old story I heard was that as the housing at the St. Aidens end was private and therefore "posh" and at the other end was "council" and therefore a bit rough, the residents on the St. aidens bit objected to it being joined and had the name of their bit altered to "St. Aidens Road" to disown the lower quality Arbourthorne. What a set of snobs!

A more likely and realistic reason for not connecting the two halves would have been the route through the Jervis Lum, those 2 small ponds are right in the way and the land which slopes down beyond is that wet boggy area, - not such a good idea then. The prop[osed route would have had to go through the quarry along the Park wall, past the park entrance, follow the route of the current Guildford Avenue a bit but then swing up that steep wet bank above Norfolk Park stream to meet the other Arbourthorne Road by going through those 2 small ponds.

When the estate was built, Arbourthorne Road just joined Park Grange Road. I can remember piles of building material being left at its dead end blocking it off for a while, some of it would be used to build the new estate but I bet some of it was used to fill those 2 ponds in. At the other end, St. Aidens Road took a sharp bend up the hill towards Spring Lane and Park Grange Road, to avoid both the quarry and that other piece of unbuilt land the "smouldering tip", an area of land also never built on until recently and for a time used as a football field. This land got its local name because it seemed to consist of mining slag which was always burning.

The housing on what is now Arbourthorne road does start at an unfeasibly high number, two-hundred and something, IIRC, (my parents' home, on AR was in the upper five-hundreds), and, yes, on old maps St Aidens Road was originally "Arbourthorne Road" too. (and the two ends of the road do align)

I suspect it was less to do with the supposed "snobbery", than the practicalities of joining the two "blind" ends of the road up through the lumb, and the confusion that would be caused by having two very separate roads with the same name

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The housing on what is now Arbourthorne road does start at an unfeasibly high number, two-hundred and something, IIRC, (my parents' home, on AR was in the upper five-hundreds), and, yes, on old maps St Aidens Road was originally "Arbourthorne Road" too. (and the two ends of the road do align)

I suspect it was less to do with the supposed "snobbery", than the practicalities of joining the two "blind" ends of the road up through the lumb, and the confusion that would be caused by having two very separate roads with the same name

My point exactly, and your comments about house numbering on Arbouthorne Road add further weight to this argument. the roads were not joined up because of the practicalities of crossing the lumb with a row of houses.

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Below are 3 rather poor quality pictures of Arbourthorne pond taken around 1982-3. My apologies for the poor quality but they were taken with a Minox subminiature camera. I have explained the details of this in the Carlton Cinema thread.

Although Arbourthorne Pond is still there I would assume that the other 2 ponds on old maps which were lower down the Jervis Lum valley would have looked very similar as they had the same basic pear shape which was wider at the downstream end although they were somewhat smaller.

Do any pictures of these 2 small ponds exist? After all they were not filled in until the mid 1960's

About 7 years ago (2000 - 2002) the council issued a booklet to Arbourthorne residents about the area which had a nice colour picture of Arbourthorne pond on its cover. Does anyone have a copy of this picture which they could scan and post as my mother (an Arbourthorne resident) has lost her copy and this is the better picture I was hoping to post.

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As a young boy living on the Arbourthorne I have memories of running down Arbourthorne playing fields and standing on the top of the embankment just to take in the view with some awe. There was no Norfolk Park estate then (1960 - 64), I was looking at farmland all the way down to the lodge and cottages which stood at the entrance to the Park, a view over the Jervis Lum in fact. Beyond that, with the recent introduction of the clean air act, on a good clear day you could see the city beyond. Unfortunately I was too young to be into photography at the time and I don't suppose anyone had the forsight to take a picture of a view that would soon be lost forever with the building of the new Norfolk Park estate.

I may never get to see that awe-inspiring 1960's view again, but I did manage to get a view about 20 years later from the same viewpoint on Arbourthorne Playing Fields. Not the same though, now down that embankment is the Norfolk Park estate and in the distance a clean modern city.

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That looks like a pint of Watney's Red Barrel from 1972 ...

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That looks like a pint of Watney's Red Barrel from 1972 ...

My Father once told me about a out of control horse & cart

finishing up in the pond (pre 1950)

"Bet that put a bit of a froth on the water"

The horse drown by the way.

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Arbourthorne Pond 2008

Thanks SteveHB

This is not quite the photo I refered to in post #30, but about as near as we are likely to get, unless someone turns up with the original booklet.

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My Father once told me about a out of control horse & cart

finishing up in the pond (pre 1950)

"Bet that put a bit of a froth on the water"

The horse drown by the way.

in later years it got worse, a dumping ground for stolen cars and even a place to burn them out around the banks. My dad reconned that his old car, a Morris Marina, stolen from Errington road, was dumped in the pond but it never turned up. Old Ford Anglias and minis frequently did though.

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My Father once told me about a out of control horse & cart

finishing up in the pond (pre 1950)

"Bet that put a bit of a froth on the water"

The horse drown by the way.

A timely reminder given the current weather.

When Arbouthorne pond is frozen over with ice do NOT attempt to walk or skate on it!

In the past a number of incidents of kids playing on the ice and falling in have been known to happen, fortunately without serious injury.

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A walk along the Jervis Lum

So here we are at the very top of East Bank Hill about 700 - 800 feet above sea level. It is the highest point around and from here the land slopes away in every direction. The highest road is Hurlfield Road and on the site of Hagg Lane (now no more) where the water tanks stood is its summit, a high point to provide water sufficient supply pressure.

The water works building, (sorry about the glare, started early on a sunny Sunday morning)

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Just across the road is the new Springs Academy school, a new school which has replaced the old Hurlfield school.

This corner of the building at the top of Gleadless Common opposite the Punch Bowl boozer made an interesting "mystery location" when photographed in the fog some months ago

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This field is the school playing field. It has never been built on by either the old or new school buildings.

When I used to take a short cut across it from Arbourthorne to Ashleigh school it was nearly always muddy, and when it did dry out the earth cracked.

The area is called "Myrtle Springs", hence the name of the school but a spring also implies a water source, and it is close to that water works.

I believe that this is the site of the source of the stream that runs through the Jervis Lum

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From Hurlfield playing field the stream would flow underground down towards East Bank Road close to Berners Road and Arbourthorne Road.

Plaintalker has commented previously about the boggy conditions in the gardens and the light prefabricated structure of the houses on this site.

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This dip in East Bank Road marks the point where the stream would pass beneath it

With this row of Vic Hallam houses sat right on top of the site of the stream

on the other side of East Bank Road there are no buildings, just open field again. There has been no housing here since the last asbestos prefabricated housing was removed in 1966. However in recent years this strange industrial looking unit has appeared. Anyone got any ideas what it is?

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We are now in a gap between Arbourthorne Road and Errington Road running down the stream valley with the stream still hidden deep below ground.

An old childrens playground stands at the top of a sharp drop towards Arbourthorne Pond

Notice that even this far out of town the top of "that tower" is still visible!

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Arbourthorne pond is in a natural hollow which, except for the fact that the surrounding woodland has been cleared, fits the definition of a lum.

The water from the stream first makes it appearance above surface at the south end of the pond

Then there is the pond itself, with its own small island in the middle this is the largest of 3 ponds along the Jervis Lum stream but the other 2 smaller ones have been filled in when the Norfolk Park estate was built in the 1960's

Water leaves the pond at the north end through this grid, note that being in a hollow it is below the level of eastern Avenue, which it flows under, but does not reappear at the other side.

The pond viewed from Eastern Avenue

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Arbourthorne playing fields have never been built on and has been used for Sunday league football matches, and in the very early 1970's fot the filming of an episode of BBC TV's "It's a knock Out" for Sheffield v Congleton (I beleive Congleton won). Norfolk Park was later used in 1972 for an episode of its international equivalent "Je sans frontier"

The fields are tiered and fall away sharply in 3 stages.

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The final drop from Arbourthorne playing fields drops towards Park Grange Road and the Norfolk Park Estate.

In this shot taken from Arbourthorne field along the hiden course of the stream we can see a clear line down to Norfolk Park and the Jervis Lum proper with no buildings on it. The building on the right forground is the housing office on Park Grange Road. when it was built there were problems with the softness and stability of the land at this point.

To the left is the old Fellbrigg, now The Beacon church of St. Leonards and St. Pauls

Coming out of that side entrance of the fellbrigg and cutting across the back towards the Guildford tower blocks and Northern Avenue was not generally a good idea if it had been wet weather previously as this bit of land also got very boggy very easily.

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Viewed from the other side of the Fellbrigg is the junction of Arbourthorne Road and Park Grange Road. This is where before 1966 Arbourthorne Road originally ended rather abruptly, - but there was another section of it across the other side of the Jervis Lum valley which is now renamed St. Aidens Road.

Just in the dip on the other side of Park Grange Road, close to where the kiosk used to be was the site of the other 2 smaller ponds, now gone. Again there has not been any building ever done on this boggy site even though only a few years ago 15 storey blocks of flats stood on either side of it.

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Viewed down the valley from Park Grange Road looking towards Norfolk Park.

Those green railings near the woods fence off a drop into a very steep valley which is where the stream finally reappears above the surface and is what is officially called on maps of the area "The Jervis Lum". It forms the woodland area with the stream that forms the entire western side of Norfolk Park.

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The upper part of the Jervis Lum valley which is south of the bridge is very steep and unfortunately has become a bit of a dumping ground for fly tippers and some less than sociable local residents. However the stream does reappear from a culvert at the extreme south end of the valley and continues down under the bridge.

The water appears down here.

The Jervis Lum Bridge

A view over the bridge into the valley and the stream (sorry, got my hand in the picture leaning over that bridge!)

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Once inside the park the stream itself becomes part of a very pleasant "nature walk"

Here are a few pictures, I know SteveHB and others have posted pictures before from this location as it is a place of natural beauty, very quiet and peaceful for a place now quite close to the City centre.

It is certainly a place well worth visiting, the walk is not that long and can be done easily in 15 minutes, but you have got the whole of Norfolk Park to enjoy as well.

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