Is There A Small Victorian Park Behind Endcliffe Park?

[Henry Pond]

I've started cleaning up the Wikipedia entry now. It's seems to be quite a complicated protocol / etiquette once a page has been around a while if it's being done properly, so, if you're interested, heres the discussion with the moderator http://en.wikipedia....#Endcliffe_Park and the discussion page I initiated http://en.wikipedia....:Endcliffe_Park

[Guest plain talker]

I'm fascinated to see what I called the "Bottom Duck- Pond" - the one nearest to the cafe, rather than the one nearest Whiteley Woods park - annotated as a "Bathing Pool" on that map.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that there was an open-air pool in the park, back in Victorian times, but I was given to understand it was on the Rustlings road side of the open space, where the Victoria monument is sited, now.

[Bayleaf]

I'm fascinated to see what I called the "Bottom Duck- Pond" - the one nearest to the cafe, rather than the one nearest Whiteley Woods park - annotated as a "Bathing Pool" on that map.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that there was an open-air pool in the park, back in Victorian times, but I was given to understand it was on the Rustlings road side of the open space, where the Victoria monument is sited, now.

Nearly PT, if you go into the park from Hunter's Bar, and take the path over the bridge to the right, the bathing pool was where the level area now is, on the right of the path before you get to the playground. It was of course 'gentlemen only'! I did see a report from shortly before it closed of a man seriously injured, or possibly killed, who didn't know the pool and dived in headfirst, not knowing that at that point the bottom shelved gently and was cobbled.

[Guest plain talker]

Nearly PT, if you go into the park from Hunter's Bar, and take the path over the bridge to the right, the bathing pool was where the level area now is, on the right of the path before you get to the playground. It was of course 'gentlemen only'! I did see a report from shortly before it closed of a man seriously injured, or possibly killed, who didn't know the pool and dived in headfirst, not knowing that at that point the bottom shelved gently and was cobbled.

So it was actually near the pretty park-keepers' cottages as you come into the park? Ah, that's fascinating. As I say I was told it as further over on the far edge of the big open space, near the two monuments. I knew it was a gentlemen-only pool.

Isn't it a shame that we had fantastic open-air pools in at least three of our parks, (Longley, Millhouses and "Encs") and they are now gone forever?

I loved the paddling pools, as a tot, in Rivelin, Firth park and Millhouses. I spent many a happy childhood summer day in the parks, paddling.

(and funny you should mention about the chap who dived into the Endcliffe pool, and did himself some serious damage. Aged 10, I dived into Heeley baths, and struck my head on the tiles on the bottom of the pool. It involved a hospital-dash,as I knocked myself out, and thirty-seven years on, I still have a lump on my forehead where I impacted with the tiling. Funny thing is, it didn't knock any sense into me! I'm still as daft as a brush! )

[Bayleaf]

So it was actually near the pretty park-keepers' cottages as you come into the park? Ah, that's fascinating. As I say I was told it as further over on the far edge of the big open space, near the two monuments. I knew it was a gentlemen-only pool.

Isn't it a shame that we had fantastic open-air pools in at least three of our parks, (Longley, Millhouses and "Encs") and they are now gone forever?

I loved the paddling pools, as a tot, in Rivelin, Firth park and Millhouses. I spent many a happy childhood summer day in the parks, paddling.

(and funny you should mention about the chap who dived into the Endcliffe pool, and did himself some serious damage. Aged 10, I dived into Heeley baths, and struck my head on the tiles on the bottom of the pool. It involved a hospital-dash,as I knocked myself out, and thirty-seven years on, I still have a lump on my forehead where I impacted with the tiling. Funny thing is, it didn't knock any sense into me! I'm still as daft as a brush! )

The other side of the river PT. It's marked on the overlay on this picture .

[belch1889]

I might be able to shed some light on this. When I was a pupil at Greystones Middle School in the 1970s, my best friend told me of a fenced-off area in Endcliffe Park which he reckoned was haunted and was known to the local youths as Creepy Gardens, complete with a spooky old bandstand. So one day we went exploring, climbing up the slope behind the stepping stones and beyond the plane crash memorial to the high wooden fence at the back of the woods. We followed the fence round until it became a wall with broken glass on the top. There was one point where the glass was ineffective, so over went another of my friends. Within a couple of metres he'd found some magazines of ill repute, which he gleefully brought back, and all thoughts of further exploration went out the window.

However, we were intrigued, so one Hallowe'en over the wall we all went, and this time with no magazines to distract us, we went as far as we dared. It became obvious that we were on private property, presumably belonging to the flats nearby. I remember thinking what a shame it was that the whole area had become overgrown as it all seemed historically very fascinating, what with what looked like a bandstand, and also a pond which looked a bit stagnant, but not quite the "lake" we'd been led to believe was in there. I am now prepared to accept that the "bandstand" is quite possibly the remains of a summerhouse, as mentioned above.

Once we were satisfied of the existence of Creepy Gardens, out we came and triumphantly boasted to all at school that we'd dared to go in.

In conclusion then, there is definitely something there, and although it is not officially part of the park, it is right next to it. We should probably side with the above theory that it is the remnants of one of the old estates surrounding Endcliffe Hall, complete with an old summerhouse or two. And it is definitely private property, so don't venture in there, not even on Hallowe'en - besides, it's probably not really haunted (but it IS quite creepy).

[hilldweller]

I think that the "private park" referred to in this thread was actually the private grounds of the large house called "The Glen".

If you look on old-maps.co.uk, there is a very large scale map (1:500) from 1903 or earlier which shows the grounds in detail. Beside the "lake/pond" is a small rectangular building and further up the grounds is a larger,octagonal shaped building with a glass roof. This has a flight of steps leading up to it.

I think that this might have looked like a bandstand or large summer-house.

The map clearly shows a wall separating the grounds from the public park.

HD

[belch1889]

Well, I tried looking on Old Maps but failed miserably to find the map you mentioned, but I did have a squint at a map of sorts, and yes, there it is, a lake/pond; and in fact when I went back and had a look at that original 1903 map linked way above at the start of this thread (and since I now seem to have my radar firmly fixed), the pond, fence and wall all appear to be on that one too, and right where I remembered it to be, just up from the stepping stones.

So, case closed then. When I'm a multi-millionaire I'll pay to get it all restored to its former glory, complete with fence and glassy wall in order to frustrate and protect from prying eyes, a safe haven for many more "magazines of ill repute"...

[Bayleaf]

Well, I tried looking on Old Maps but failed miserably to find the map you mentioned, but I did have a squint at a map of sorts, and yes, there it is, a lake/pond; and in fact when I went back and had a look at that original 1903 map linked way above at the start of this thread (and since I now seem to have my radar firmly fixed), the pond, fence and wall all appear to be on that one too, and right where I remembered it to be, just up from the stepping stones.

So, case closed then. When I'm a multi-millionaire I'll pay to get it all restored to its former glory, complete with fence and glassy wall in order to frustrate and protect from prying eyes, a safe haven for many more "magazines of ill repute"...

Nice one belch1889. Presumably the reason none of us had seen it is the trees in the park have grown sufficiently over the years to screen it from the park, except to the more adventurous who climb the bank?

[belch1889]

Pretty much, yes. Plus the fence that separates it from the park is a tall one, although all you can see above the fence are more trees, so it just looks as if someone has fenced off a bit of the wood (for the record, the wall is the short part of the boundary marked on the map that is at an angle to the longer part [that longer part being the fence]). When you look at the satellite version of Google Maps, again all you can see are trees, apart from a small gap where you can just about make out the pond, but you'd probably only notice it if you were looking for it.

There, that was fun - I think I need to dredge up some more childhood memories and commit them to the typed page.

[vox]

Is this the area that we are talking about. (Behind the red line)

If so has anyone noticed the two footpaths which are crossed by the fence/wall - marked blue - Indicating either that there were gates at sometime or other, or indeed, no barrier at all.

[hilldweller]

Is this the area that we are talking about. (Behind the red line)

If so has anyone noticed the two footpaths which are crossed by the fence/wall - marked blue - Indicating either that there were gates at sometime or other, or indeed, no barrier at all.

On the large scale 1:500 map on old-maps.co.uk there is only one footpath crossing the boundary, the more southern one which has a square blob where it crosses the wall. I think it might represent a door set in a fancy gateway.

It was probably a private entrance into the public park for the residents of "The Glen". I doubt passage the other way was possible without a key.

It takes some doing to get the 1:500 scale map which is dated something like 1897/1903. You have to get the modern map centered just right and the magnification correct before the 1: 500 map option appears.

Perhaps some more mobile forummer might have a look in the wall for any sign of a doorway.

I won't be going anywhere fast while the blizzard outside lasts.

HD

[SteveHB]

The pond that is in the grounds of The Glen, just visible on the L/H side are some steps.

http://images.vebra....thegl303282.pdf

[hilldweller]

The pond that is in the grounds of The Glen, just visible on the L/H side are some steps.

http://images.vebra....thegl303282.pdf

Those steps are marked on the large scale map, together with another set that lead up to the glass roofed building which was around to the right of the photograph, halfway up the slope to the old house.

HD

[SteveHB]

Those steps are marked on the large scale map, together with another set that lead up to the glass roofed building which was around to the right of the photograph, halfway up the slope to the old house.

HD

[belch1889]

"...a reinstated small lake..." That's a pond to you and me.

Now, as for a gate, well, I'm beginning to think that the boundary was made up of the short stretch of glass-topped wall, the tall fence, and just maybe a longer stretch of very tall wall which could well have had a bricked up doorway in it. Guess we'll not know until someone goes and has a look. I'd do it myself but I'm in sunny London.