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Castle Market, Listed Building?

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A couple of artists impressions on here :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/sheffield/hi/people_and_places/newsid_8868000/8868795.stm

Will you only be able to shop there in silhouette?

Yes, but that's quite realistic in a way isn't it.

Silouettes, like the new market, lack any sort of character <_<

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Sounds like Sheffield Council know what they want to do

Yes they do know what they want to do! :angry:

So did the Luftwaffe in 1940 lol

Unfortunately their ideas were very similar <_<

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What a set of hammer happy Luddites my Sheffield History comrades are! :o

I like Castle Market.

OK the building is a bit shoddy and leaves a lot to be desired but it is familiar and instantly Sheffield.

You see, it's not just the building, it's the traders, the stallholders, the people that go there, the conversations that go on, the local charcters. They are what make the place the and what make it Sheffield.

It's a place where real Sheffielders go, not like that monstrosity at Meadowhall that attracts people from all over the place from miles away and which, amongst many other faults, totally lacks any character at all because of this, it's not as friendly, people don't talk to each other, it has no heart and soul.

Knock down Meadowhell, Knock down the Aztec temple that blocks off the Moorfoot but leave Castle Market alone until these have gone first.

When the market moves from Castle Market to the bottom of the Moor it's unique character will be lost and it just won't be the same. I don't think many of the Castle Market regulars will go the extra mile to Moorfoot to a modern characterless market and the traders will move elsewhere to find better business.

There are some of us that still mourn the loss of the Sheaf Market and the old "Rag 'n Tag" market in the Castle area.

Loss of the Castle Market as well?

It will be a sad day for me when it goes.

Sadly, as the end draws nigh for Castle Market I am starting to signs like this one on shuttered up retail units

Closed for good!

That was someones business and livelihood :(

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Sadly, as the end draws nigh for Castle Market I am starting to signs like this one on shuttered up retail units

Closed for good!

That was someones business and livelihood :(

When you are busy working full time you want a one stop shop to get everything in one hit. When you are retired (and more penny conscious) you have the time to shop around. Why can´t we have both? I have never been a shopping fan, hence grew most of my fresh fruit and veg stuff as it was more enjoyable than shopping but when working you have to get everything quickly. I cannot understand why Sheffield does not take a leaf out of Leeds book and create some old fashioned shopping experiences. I am not a fan of Leeds but their markets are excellent.

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When you are busy working full time you want a one stop shop to get everything in one hit. When you are retired (and more penny conscious) you have the time to shop around. Why can´t we have both? I have never been a shopping fan, hence grew most of my fresh fruit and veg stuff as it was more enjoyable than shopping but when working you have to get everything quickly. I cannot understand why Sheffield does not take a leaf out of Leeds book and create some old fashioned shopping experiences. I am not a fan of Leeds but their markets are excellent.

About 5 or 6 times a year Sheffield has a Continental market in Fargate.

It's OK for you SuzyC as you live in Spain and every market is a Continental market, but home in Sheffield this is a bit of a novelty.

I quite like going to the Continental markets to buy fresh foreign produce (albeit at an understandably higher price, - given that the traders have had to travel a long way to be here) and to meet people that you wouldn't normally expect to see in Sheffield.

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When you are busy working full time you want a one stop shop to get everything in one hit. When you are retired (and more penny conscious) you have the time to shop around. Why can´t we have both? I have never been a shopping fan, hence grew most of my fresh fruit and veg stuff as it was more enjoyable than shopping but when working you have to get everything quickly. I cannot understand why Sheffield does not take a leaf out of Leeds book and create some old fashioned shopping experiences. I am not a fan of Leeds but their markets are excellent.

Thats the problem

Leeds have refurbished their Victorian market and spent some money

Sheffield have let the whole area decay, and the 1960's market has followed.

The area needs to move forward and move upwards, minus the market

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Thats the problem

Leeds have refurbished their Victorian market and spent some money

Sheffield have let the whole area decay, and the 1960's market has followed.

The area needs to move forward and move upwards, minus the market

Hang on a bit mate!!!

SuzyC started her post with the words, -

When you are busy working full time you want a one stop shop to get everything in one hit

Now does that apply to ME or YOU :rolleyes:

You can go and get stuff at your leisure while I'm still at work.

I bet you are going to and up like those impatient, irrate, fussy old age pensioners with free bus passes that are always in such a hurry down at the shops even though they have all the time in the world to do their shopping.

For us, MrsH (who also works) does a mad trolley dash on Thursday morning and then I get the rest of the stuff in town on Saturday, so for me Castle Market is a "one stop shop and get everything in one hit" sort of place.

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I think the thing is with leeds they had the old Victorian Arcades to work with. I'm not sure Sheffield had these type of archives plus the blitz knocked down a lot of beautiful shops. I think the new market could be good on the Moor. The trouble with the Markets area is they have had so many plans and then the investors have pulled out and everything has collapsed. This lack of decision has meant that everything has been run down. The coop would have closed anyway because it was financial decision about keeping up such a big store. Maybe the council needs to think smaller and get on with moving the market and opening up the castle and getting a big dig going and perhaps the interest might interest some investment too. Maybe we can get the old town hall renovated and loaned out to film crews for a while and then open it as a museum or an unusual themed restaurant?

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I think the thing is with leeds they had the old Victorian Arcades to work with. I'm not sure Sheffield had these type of archives plus the blitz knocked down a lot of beautiful shops. I think the new market could be good on the Moor. The trouble with the Markets area is they have had so many plans and then the investors have pulled out and everything has collapsed. This lack of decision has meant that everything has been run down. The coop would have closed anyway because it was financial decision about keeping up such a big store. Maybe the council needs to think smaller and get on with moving the market and opening up the castle and getting a big dig going and perhaps the interest might interest some investment too. Maybe we can get the old town hall renovated and loaned out to film crews for a while and then open it as a museum or an unusual themed restaurant?

Unfortunately all modern city centres look pretty much the same and because of that they are totally characterless.

I hope that this area of Sheffield when it is redeveloped has something unique about it and is not just a clone of Leeds or everywhere else.

After all Leeds is fairly close to us and seen as a rival. We have no desire to copy what Leeds do.

I really do hope the new moorfoot market is a success, and having watched it being built it looks promising, as Stuart has said previously a market at moorfoot would be more convenient for me - but is it the right location?

The old town hall could be pulled down now as unlike the market the building is derelict, it has been up for sale for at least 2 years and so far there are no takers. At least Castle Market is still occupied and is being used.

Would the old town hall make a museum or a themed restraunt?

We have several museums in Sheffield, all small and all seem to be running at either break even or a loss.

A themed restraunt would simply be an excuse to sell food at deliberately inflated prices so people would go and eat elsewhere at more reasonable prices.

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I understand from photos I have seen that the court is still there as are the cells. Museums Sheffield have a huge number of artefacts and paintings that never see the light of day. It would be lovely if they could turn it into a people's museum and put things there to show the history of the city from iron age to 20century. But you are right that it is neglected and it seems to me a shame. I know many people have fond memories of the old market but I can't see it as a building of beauty. It is boxlike outside and dingy inside to me. I like the stalls and stallholders but they are not welded to the market. I remember when I first came to Sheffield being impressed with the old Town hall and its tower so reminiscent of the Wren churches in London and wondering what a fine building was doing amongst all the shops.

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Well put that man !

A great building in the Brutalist style, and a landmark as you enter Sheffield, leave it be, the castle remains can be revealed beneth it and the market building can become its housing.

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A great building in the Brutalist style, and a landmark as you enter Sheffield, leave it be, the castle remains can be revealed beneth it and the market building can become its housing.

I wish there could have been a compromise with this. Maybe they should have moved the market to the coop building. I can't see the market traders not going with the market. Where will they go? The indoor stalls are not travelling vendors. I only hope they don't put the rents up to high. I imagine there was a similar feeling when they knocked down the market in the Market square and built the new one in the 1930s and again when they knocked that down and built the present one.

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I understand from photos I have seen that the court is still there as are the cells. Museums Sheffield have a huge number of artefacts and paintings that never see the light of day. It would be lovely if they could turn it into a people's museum and put things there to show the history of the city from iron age to 20century. But you are right that it is neglected and it seems to me a shame. I know many people have fond memories of the old market but I can't see it as a building of beauty. It is boxlike outside and dingy inside to me. I like the stalls and stallholders but they are not welded to the market. I remember when I first came to Sheffield being impressed with the old Town hall and its tower so reminiscent of the Wren churches in London and wondering what a fine building was doing amongst all the shops.

Sheffield is short of a decent museum.

It's "good" museums like Kelham island and Abbeydale Industrial Hamlet are unfortunately on sites which are too small to do justice to the number of artifacts and history they contain.

It's "other" museums like Weston Park and Magna have, unfortunately gone down the route that museums are not repositories of valuable history but are "hands on" historical entertainment, a sort of glorified childrens playground instead.

Then there are the "dodgy" museums like the Sheffield Blitz museum on the top floor of Banners at Attercliffe, which suddenly "dissapeared" along with all its exhibits.

I would like to see Sheffield have a good quality museum, - one big enough so that you could spend a day there and not just see it all in an hour or so and one which would equal the quality of museums in other towns or cities. If the site of Sheffields Historic castle was used for this I would be happy to see the land that Castle market currently stands on being turned over to this.

However, Castle Market is a business premises, people make a living working there and I am keen to protect their businesses. Some of the market traders have served the residents of this City well for several generations now and I would not want to lose them.

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A great building in the Brutalist style, and a landmark as you enter Sheffield, leave it be, the castle remains can be revealed beneth it and the market building can become its housing.

Not many people on here would agree with you on that sando,

They are mainly a set of Luddites who want to knock it down, - they should be working for the town council!

However your view is basically in line with mine in that it is not necessary to get rid of the market, it's just seen as an impressive, quick but expensive way of tidying up a bit of the City without any thought of what the replacement will be like.

I'm sure similar minded people with the "knock it down rebuild something new" mentality a few years ago must have thought that the Town Hall Egg Boxes, the MSP Aztec Temple blocking the Moor and the monstrosity of Meadowhell were all good ideas at the time.

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I suppose I will be the only member to support this campaign then! :(

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Not many people on here would agree with you on that sando,

They are mainly a set of Luddites who want to knock it down, - they should be working for the town council!

However your view is basically in line with mine in that it is not necessary to get rid of the market, it's just seen as an impressive, quick but expensive way of tidying up a bit of the City without any thought of what the replacement will be like.

I'm sure similar minded people with the "knock it down rebuild something new" mentality a few years ago must have thought that the Town Hall Egg Boxes, the MSP Aztec Temple blocking the Moor and the monstrosity of Meadowhell were all good ideas at the time.

Luddites were not in favour of doing away with the old. They were in favour or stopping progress. Hence they smashed all the new machinery. So if you are in favour of keeping the market. You are the Luddite.

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Luddites were not in favour of doing away with the old. They were in favour or stopping progress. Hence they smashed all the new machinery. So if you are in favour of keeping the market. You are the Luddite.

But Castle Market is "the new" and not the old.

It is Sheffield Castle which represents "the old"

When I made that comment most members were in favour of knocking down a 20th century market, only to replace it with the remains of a 13th century castle!

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But Castle Market is "the new" and not the old.

It is Sheffield Castle which represents "the old"

When I made that comment most members were in favour of knocking down a 20th century market, only to replace it with the remains of a 13th century castle!

No the new is at the Moor. If they do not knock down the old market we don't get a new market. Whether or not they let us see the castle, there is also the point of having a new light and airy market. I want a market. Its not about a building to me. I am really looking forward to a new market. I want to see the castle ruins but if the old market had been a wonderful building I would have stood by it..

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No the new is at the Moor. If they do not knock down the old market we don't get a new market. Whether or not they let us see the castle, there is also the point of having a new light and airy market. I want a market. Its not about a building to me. I am really looking forward to a new market. I want to see the castle ruins but if the old market had been a wonderful building I would have stood by it..

No, the Moor is not "the new" as we haven't got it yet, the Moor is "the future".

Now as work at moorfoot seems to have ground to a halt without ant work being carried out on the next market, and as the financial situation has squeezed budgets and cut budgets it means "the future" market is a very uncertain future for this market.

It could now remain a derelict site for years with no spare cash to develop it.

Yes, I would love to have a nice new market building, and as Stuart has already pointed out, the moorfoot location would be ideal for me, better than the Castle Market site in fact.

But a "market" isn't just a building is it?

It's the people, the businesses, the trade, the characters that go to make up the essence of a market.

My main concern is that all this will be lost when the market moves and that the moorfoot market will just become a smaller, inferior, City centre version of a shopping centre like Crystal Peaks or Meadowhall which I hate.

These places just don't have the atmosphere and feel of a market, - and that's not down to the actual building is it.

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I say knock it down

Just consider what development opportunities it will open up:

The Castle remains obviously

Of course there is, who pays for it and will Sheffield council do the correct thing

Hmmm....

Knock down the market and replace it with a themed castle, -

A bit like Mr. Disney did in California, Florida and Paris.

OK, I am the genie of the lamp your wish is my command.

Before, a tatty old City Centre Market.

After, a nice new themed castle

What was it that Disney called it, ..oh yes FANTASYLAND!!!

..and perhaps that's where we are living if you think, -

1) There is sufficient of the Castle left to make a viable feature of it.

2) The council have sufficient funds to pay for such an ambitious project.

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It could now remain a derelict site for years with no spare cash to develop it.

Build an assortment of car-parks, unwanted office blocks and more student accommodation and/or over-priced apartments - there's never enough of them and never a shortage of cash ... oh, and another retail park wouldn't go amiss either ...

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Build an assortment of car-parks, unwanted office blocks and more student accommodation and/or over-priced apartments - there's never enough of them and never a shortage of cash ... oh, and another retail park wouldn't go amiss either ...

When the council finally demolished that hideous monstrosity of the Egg Box Town Hall, what they eventually replaced it with does not look too bad at all.

So with hope, the long overdue demolishion of the equally hideous Castle Market Building [sorry guys, but I see nothing that is either historic, or pleasing with that current scruffy edifice], then we might end up with something that truly adds value to the city.

For the record however and in order to avoid the rather unfair tag of being called a Luddite, I must say that I am generally of the view that too many defunct buildings are demolished unnecessarily and simply because the commercial costs of conversion are considered as being too great.

This view of local authorities, I always find it astonishing.

Especially when this comes from a local council that would appear to have every intention of turning every private household in this city into a recycling centre, with the number of different coloured wheelie bins that they keep dishing out, yet never consider for one instance, the environmental costs of producing new bricks and concrete and mortar, both in terms of used mineral resources and certainly in terms of fuel consumption.

I am sure that the energy costs of firing and transporting millions more house bricks far outweights the benefits of all of the used newspaper and tin cans that we recycle every year.

So, keep safe and cherish what should be kept [and the Castle Market Buildings shouldn't] and replace that which shouldn't.

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For the record however and in order to avoid the rather unfair tag of being called a Luddite, I must say that I am generally of the view that too many defunct buildings are demolished unnecessarily and simply because the commercial costs of conversion are considered as being too great.

This view of local authorities, I always find it astonishing.

Especially when this comes from a local council that would appear to have every intention of turning every private household in this city into a recycling centre, with the number of different coloured wheelie bins that they keep dishing out, yet never consider for one instance, the environmental costs of producing new bricks and concrete and mortar, both in terms of used mineral resources and certainly in terms of fuel consumption.

I am sure that the energy costs of firing and transporting millions more house bricks far outweights the benefits of all of the used newspaper and tin cans that we recycle every year.

I fully agree with your logic on this one Unitedite.

Recyling materials is always more energy and cost effective than starting from scratch to make new and it makes better sense to recycle (renovate and reuse) than to demolish and rebuild. I have said this in a number of topics in which I have been appalled at the councils apparent policy to demolish any building in Sheffield which is more than 30 years old or 3 storeys high.

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Build an assortment of car-parks, unwanted office blocks and more student accommodation and/or over-priced apartments - there's never enough of them and never a shortage of cash ... oh, and another retail park wouldn't go amiss either ...

..and what a dump that would look, - no different to any other "lost" inner City area.

But you have got a point Richard, car parks, office blocks, student accomodation and over priced apartments all turn out a healthy income for the council, probably more than a market or a themed park would, - so that's why they do it. Destroy any active inner city area for the sake of making a fast buck.

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..and what a dump that would look, - no different to any other "lost" inner City area.

But you have got a point Richard, car parks, office blocks, student accomodation and over priced apartments all turn out a healthy income for the council, probably more than a market or a themed park would, - so that's why they do it. Destroy any active inner city area for the sake of making a fast buck.

It was a wind-up Dave, but I agree with you - whatever makes money wins.I don't have a problem with the Market interior at all, just the awful exterior and that concrete castellated pillar - but its all money and if money werefree and easy they would save Town Hall number 3 - that has some history and architectural merit to it.

With the economic climate as it is have they just condemned the old Market and postponed, indefinately, the new Market area i.e. taken a bad situation and made it even worse ?

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