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History dude

Sheffield History Member
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Everything posted by History dude

  1. Then you haven't read James Burke's Book The Day The Universe Changed. That shows that science is often shaped by the world a scientists lives in. For instance the leading thinkers of the day in Paris told poor working farmers that the rocks falling out of the sky on there land was nonsence. Then the French revolution happened and the new leading thinkers said they were metors. So it would be nice to think that "Scientists have open minds and do not dismiss or rule out anything". But in practice they don't. Much of it boils down to money. Many scientists work in labs connected to university. If the university doesn't surport what they do funding will stop. In the west the "occult" investigation by science is frownd upon. So a scientist putting effort into proving that a medium is talking to a ghost, wouldn't be in work long. As you say you have been trained to be a scientist, with all that implies and the same applies to historians. But at the end of the day you are not a computer. You will make mistakes and you will judge things based in a non-science way. Even not questioning a leading expert, who could be wrong. The last point "It is a tried and tested system and it works." Not always. One scientists developed a test to prove the speed of light theory. 186 thousand miles per sec... The test proved it did. Then another came up with a better test and proved it didn't. I don't hear of anyone saying that the speed of light is not 186..... Have you ;-)
  2. What I said says nothing about the rights or wrong of the abortionist argument. A body can be kept alive and that's what the baby is a living body. It would function like that till a "soul" enters. Remember I said that they work in a symbotic relationship with the body. If the soul does not enter or can't for some reason, then the baby's functions cease. It's the same with someone on a life surport machine. If the soul has left then the body will die. Human and animals all have a symbotic relationship with bacteria. We use them to digest green materials as well as other ways. We don't have a choice in this. It's the same with souls.
  3. Yes and if you listen to the lyrics he goes mad because his DOG left him! he he
  4. Birthmarks, moles etc have been found to match past life injurious. There have been many cases on TV and lots of books on the subject, far too many to mention here. The mark on the surface of a person's skin indicates where a bullet entered. Some cases have even been shown on serious birth defects caused by damage in a previous life. Sometimes these marks etc didn't happen at death of the past ilfe person. Some other thoughts include the type of job you do. For example it's likely some of the Germans that died in the war now work at UK Social Security (SS) offices giving out war pensions. he he
  5. Souls are not created when a person is born. Most people (such as myself) think that the population of Earth is determined by the other side of life so to speak. Some think that each soul is on a journey, learning about life. So some of us will have been reborn many times while most will have only two or three lives. Many think that souls travel in groups. So you incounter the same "people" all the time. A lot of religions have bits from rebirth or the other side incorpareted into them. For instance Jesus seems to spout a lot of these ideas. Such as "Judge not lest you should be judge". And there's the concept of judgement day. Which clearly referes to the review of the "soul" life after death. So what's the other side like? That for us is impossible to understand. Look at like this. Imagine it's another dimension. Clearly life and death or the doors to it. But though a "being" (for want of a better word) from there can understand both it's own world and ours. We can only view our own world and think of the other side in those terms. To make things clear. If you are a two-dimension person, how do you describe "up"? But we live in 3-D so we can see up. Is this down to God? Looking at the history of humans it would appear not. For the idea of a single God doesn't fit with our development. Indeed mostly we worshiped the Sun or Moon. I myself think that the christian God was developed from the Sun God of Egypt - the Aten. The Egyptian King Akhenaton said there was only one true God, that of the Aten and banned all others. He got the boot and most traces were erased from history of this God. It wasn't till the 1800's when all this was discovered. The concept of this God (being the Sun) was lost but not the idea. So it was picked up by the slaves who went on to use it for the relgion we know today. But there are clues to his true id. Even in the Bible! Such as: 'he shines his light on everyone' etc. And of course the fact that an Egyptian left with the Exodus. In fact many left with them who still had faith in the one true God, more than lkely.
  6. While it would be nice to think that memories are passed down from generation to generation in the mind of the young person, it doesn't explain many tales of reincarnation that I have either read or seen about. Granted that young lad could have had a distant ancestor who went to that school. But he could also have been that ancestor! It wouldn't be too far out to think that way, as the population gets smaller the further back you go. Meaning that there would be a need for "souls" to pass from generation to generation. However there are cases of children remembering events of another person, who died only a few weeks or days before they were born and who were not related to them in any way, often because they were in another part of the world. Nor does it explain the fact that physical marks on the child's body match those of a dead person that they claim to be. Marks such as bullet holes etc, that match in great detail. Of course a lot of people claim to be this or that person, mostly a famous person such as Cleopatra or Shakespeare. Indeed if all that claimed to be these celebs were, then you could easily say that there would be 100's of them. But even that isn't as far fetched as it sounds. For I'm certain that there are lots of asylums with Cleopatra's or Bonapart in them right now. I've seen a lot of so called scientist putting the cobwash on ideas like reincarnation. One way they do it is to match up records with what a person recalls. When they past life person gets some crucial fact wrong they dismiss the claim. The problem with this is that human minds don't recall events in the same way as information stored on records in libraries and archives. I found this out when a group of us historians got together to record old people's memories. We had a hell of a job matching these memories up with records in archive sources. All sorts of mistakes were seen even in those with good memories! If we applied the same logic as the reincarnation cases we could say that nearly half had not lived the life they did. I personally like to think that the "force" or to put it in its most common name the "Soul". Lives in a sort of symbotic relationship with it's host body. Indeed without the soul coming into a body (it appears at the time of birth seems the most common time for this to happen) the human baby would be born dead. Such relationships are common in the animal world, so it seems logical to me for this to happen. However it's likely not everything goes perfectly in this, hence the problems that people have in life.
  7. Another spooky story I can relate to you again concerns the Manor Lodge. However this one is much harder to pass off as mere nonsense. It's more of a paranormal thing rather than "ghost" related, but I think this thread suits it. Anyway at the time (early 90's) I was teaching computers at MATREC (Manor Training & Rescource Center) and during a coffee break, I got into a disscussion about the history of Manor Lodge with the students (adults) of the different classes. There were a lot of women trying to pick up skills so they could return to work at that time and thanks to the timing of courses many mothers could access the courses. So MATREC was full of women students. It was well known I was into the history of the area and Manor Lodge was brought up by someone. There wasn't any open days or anything going off on site so many people were curious about it and since lots of students lived around the Manor Park area it was often talked about. On this day one of the women students asked me if there was school there. I said did she mean the one on Manor Lane - Manor Lodge School? "No" she replied "where the ruins are?". Well not now, but there was one built into or on the ruins, I explained to her. With that her face went into shock mode So I asked why she wanted to know? So she explained that for sometime she and her young son had gone past the Manor Lodge Ruins on the local bus and her son when he saw them would point them out to his mum and say "Mummy that's where I used to go to school!" He did this quite often it seems. So no wonder she was shocked The school was part of the Wesleyan Methodists movement and features in A History of Wesleyan Methodism In Sheffield Park, by J.J. Graham 1914. You can see the building in the picture of the Lodge on Picture Sheffield. The one with the mine workings in the background. His mother had put it down to a child's imagination. But she didn't after I said that. The child was too young to have read that book, or even to be taught about it at school, even if any school teacher would know about the school at Sheffield Manor Lodge site. So was this a case of past life memory? Afterwards I did read up on cases where children have had past life images flooding thier minds. Many researches into past lives would not delve into the minds of children for fear of damage to the child's mind. But others did it anyway and came up with things that science can't easily pass off.
  8. A few years ago I was part of the group that set up the first Friends of Manor Lodge/Castle. We started open days on the site taking people around, often on Sundays. Because the Turret House has the tradition of being haunted by Mary Stuart, even though she probably never went inside that building! It attracted all sorts of weird and wonderful people to see it. At that time (the late 1990's) the building had not been refurbished and we had to limit the persons going in. So we had the visitors in groups, with guides such as myself touring the grounds and a guide or two in the Turret House. Only one group was allowed in the house at a time. Because I was good on the grounds I spent most of the day doing that. After one busy Sunday, I went back to the T. H. and up on the top floor I noticed a Mars Bar on the mantlepiece I said to one of the guides has somebody left a Mars Bar and the guide told me what happened that day. One of the visitors, a male I think, during the guide's tale of the room, said that he was the reincarnation of Anthony Babbington, plus that he could sense that Mary's sprit had been here. I seem to recall the guide saying that he kneeled down and begged Mary's forgiveness. And then placed the Mars Bar to feed Mary's ghost. A sort of offering for the sprit of Mary . Well it was there for many years that Mars Bar. It made a fun story to tell. The Turret House has since been done up and Green Estate (who now control the site) went all rule book over the site. So if the Mars Bar has gone it won't be Mary's Ghost that scoffed it, it will have broken a safety rule! I had some fun times, but it was hard work taking people around the site, but I couldn't stomach the silly rules that they will have now in place. It just takes all the fun out of it. :)
  9. I have been told by a Record Company rep that Bradleys Records in Sheffield was the "Chart Shop". IE: if you bought a single from there it was loged for the BBC's top 50. Whereas if you bought one from Violet it wasn't. I doubt it was ever a chart shop. I can't see her writing all her sales into a BMRB diary every time a record sold. I bought a few records from that shop on the moor. I didn't like the place much, it was a bit dirty. Condition of some records poor- overpriced- and label boxes were packed tight and it made browsing hard, if the shop was busy on Saturday. You had to ask for each box, plus you didn't always know what label an artist was on. She would charge full price on ex-chart records, so I was more likely to go to a place were they were only 25 to 50p - not 75 to 85p at May's.
  10. Cinerama actually used multi track surround sound. Cinemascope, or Cinerama, VistaVision, Superscope, or Todd-A-O all became obselete and were replaced by Panavision. The reason being the cinema didn't have to change its film projection system. Also the company could supply the film in different aspect ratios. So a Cinema needed only adjust the lens on the projector for the different sizes of movie. For instance the one in Flatt Street had to have a moving screen for cinemascope. I reckon that means a modern cinema couldn't show a Cinemascope movie properly. The screen wouldn't be curved enough. You get the same effect on TV, even if they letterbox it on widescreen TV. Building angles look wrong. And if you look at Oklahoma! at the Surrey with the fringe on top, it has jack-knifed wheels that still turn! Any device that picks up colour signals must have a colour licence, this applies to VCR's too. Even if you watch them on a B&W TV. So the answer would appear to be no. I don't know if the licence fee - fee, makes a difference between analog and digital service. But I don't think any box is made just to send out B&W signals so that rule will apply. PS a B&W set would not have extra components for dealing with colour including seperation of the 3 colours used to make up the image. It would therefore be cheaper to build.
  11. Did you know that the true Cinerama screen is still the largest and best cinema screen you can get. The sound also is better than the Dolby stuff you get today. Did any Cinema in Sheffield actually show the the proper 3-screen versions of the films? I understand they had a traveling version of a cinema for it, did that come to Sheffield?
  12. My favourite shows were Rousy's Saturday and The Top 40 on Sunday. Mike Rouse had a special sections where he would blow up a record somebody didn't like. I remember once he blew up Terry Wogan's floral dance. However the best segment was the phazer. I've got recordings of some of them. They started at 12 noon. The jingle (using war of the world's music) said "Twelve noon on Radio Hallam and on Rouse's Saturday the phazer strikes again!" The record played and it had been put through an effect, the same thing that happens on the Small Faces record Itchycoo Park, where the music and voice sound funny. It was great for stereo effects The top 40 was great, it makes the current one presented on Radio One sound crap! The presenter was Kelly Temple. The Sunday chart show first started in 1977. It began at 2pm, lasting till five. Kelly would play them 3 tracks in a row, mixing them together, Jingle first, followed by music, without him talking till the last track was drawing to a close. At the start of the show a jingle would say his name and Kelly would say "I'ts two O'Clock on a Sunday and it's time for the brand new top 40" The show jingles would then play. These were changed every so often, then Kelly over the still playing jingle, now without voices, would say the chart satistics, like how many new entries etc. That done he would say "Standby to countdown. First you're going to hear....." At the end of the first 3 he would do a time check, before telling you what he had just played. I'll always remember him often saying "ten minutes after two" as the tracks were often about 3 minutes long. Later on they used jingles for new entry, which used the effect of an arrow hitting a target and vibrating! Going Down, a whistling sound for the record taking the biggest drop. A cash till sound for the highest climber. And of course the Number One Jingle! I just loved the jingles there was "Radio Hallam Countdown, Countdown, Countdown" till it faded away.... The Apollo rocket launch one "Five Four Three Two One Lift Off we have a lift off" . When Kelly left in the 80's, Shaughan Ferguson took over (the same one who presented folk). His main work however seems to have been the voice overs for all those adverts. I always got the impression that many of the top 40 presenters didn't like doing the show. I reckon it was because they couldn't pick what they liked to play, I think Shaughan being one! But Ferguson was a very funny man and liked to tell jokes. He once left his mike open when telling the news presenter a rude joke, but somebody noticed and I never heard the conclusion I remember he played Gladys Knight, with the words "a man walks into the pub and asks 'A Taste of Bitter Love'. The title of the song by Gladys The other funny thing I remember was Roger Moffat doing his morning show. One day they had an outside broadcast from Hallam Towers Hotel, but Roger was in the studio playing the records, another presenter was at the Hotel. The Hotel was doing one of those Hi-Fi shows with all the makers of Audio systems there. Showing off the latest Stereo systems The presenter at the Hotel asked Roger to play something for the Hi-Fi buffs. So Roger played and old 78rpm record to the assembled multitude he he
  13. You will never get permission to rebuild any part of the Castle. It will take ages to just get the digging work done, look at what Time Team has to go through to dig small trenches. If they find a heap of stones that's what the tourists will see. I reckon the site will be built over with a vault type of thing that you can go and see inside, not unlike what is there now, only more plush and costing a packet of taxpayers money to construct. And something commercial on top. The real stuff will come in the finds, but as for what is left, unless you like looking at piles of sandstone blocks, most will find it boring, sad to say :(
  14. A certain old man named Harry Cowlishaw, of the same family who farmed in the Manor area, visited Manor Memories Group, which used to meet at Standhouse School a few years ago. Back in the 1920's the family had a very good box Brownie camera. They took photos all over the area and I remember seeing one of the tramway (or the remains of it) that ran from the pit into Sheffield town still present even as late as that. The photo collection was vast, but when he died, it seems to have vanished. Some of his pictures were published in the Manor Memories booklets, but we never did find out what happened to the rest.
  15. I hate it when people refer to Mary Stuart's time in Sheffield and the two buildings she stayed in as "the prison of Mary Queen of Scots". Not only is it not true, it undermines both buildings value to Sheffield. The reality is that Mary Suart was in protective custody till the Babbington Plot. Only then is she arrested for a crime. The nearest thing to it today would be when the police confine a witness in a drug or murder case for fear of them being killed. This was the route cause of Mary being placed in Sheffield Castle and Manor. The fear she may have been killed. Of course Mary Stuart doesn't like it and does refer to herself as a prisoner! But then she would. It might come a surprise also to some people that Mary requested this treatment, in a letter to Queen Elizabeth, when she fled in fear of her life from Scotland. You may have noticed that I refer to her by her name and not Mary Queen of Scots. Why I do this is because she abdicated from the throne of Scotland and so was no longer Queen, something which was used at her trial. The reason many keep on calling her 'Mary Queen of Scots' is entirely the fault of Elizabeth the First. For she had very high standards about Royal personages and would not except her "forced" abidcation. However I should point out that the English Ambassador to Scotland when he asked Mary, was told by Mary that she was willing to give up the crown and live as a "damsel" with Bothwell. She also had the option to return to France, but she thought to use Elizabeth, by getting an army from her to return to Scotland. In anycase when her son was crowned King, so she was no longer Queen. If you need further proof just read George Talbot's tomb, that makes it very clear Mary's place in things. That inventory above also shows how well she was treated. "Prison" more like Buckingham Palace!
  16. You can also download this book for free from the Internet Archive. My link
  17. My grandfather William Benton was an ARP ambulance driver during the Sheffield Blitz, he didn't come home for 3 days! My grandmother thought he was a gonna!! When he did come home, she was making the meal for the famiy, when he came through the back door of their house on the Manor. Her first words to him were "Where the bloody hell have you been? " His reply "Not on holiday!" He was covered with ash and black from head to foot. And he smelt of fire. One experiance he recalled to the family was that he had attended the Marples Hotel, which was known for it's bar. So grandmother thought that he had been drinking there. "No rescuing people it's had a direct hit!" When he arrived at the scene, the crew had to wait to go in, on the instructions of the firemen, as the building was still falling down. Outside a young boy (approx 10 years old) said that he knew his mum was in there. The lad wanted to go inside saying that his mum had gone to look for his father in the pub. William told him to wait and asked for his parents name and said to the lad that he would call out for them when searching. But the young lad would not wait and before anyone could stop him, had ran inside the building and was killed when part of the building fell on him. I assume that the mother and father were already dead. William had been in the first war and was gassed, but it didn't stop him doing what he could, he talked about the above an experiance that upset him greatly. But as shocking as it was, he never talked about his time on the front line, somethings even an old soldier doesn't want to talk about. But he wasn't one for giving up! So he had something to eat and had a bath and then went back out to help. He died in the 1970's of lung problems, caused by the gas. A late victim of WW1. To me, only young boy myself when he died, he was a grumpy old man, but now I know him a bit better and can understand why.
  18. When the Shrewsbury monuments were being refurbished, I was chatting to a woman connected with the Cathedral. She told us that bodies of the Talbots are all missing and are no longer in the vaults :o
  19. I was going to add a FULL reply, but having typed it in the website lost it, so I won't and fuel the debate more by adding much more to the points I have made. All I will say this request was nearly two years ago. Nobody from that group was charged a penny. And all of Bayleaf points were raised and taken to the high levels. In the end I think you can assume Council departments don't take to interferance from the public, but you would expect that anyway, who does?
  20. Most of the points you raise where raised by them. My main objection to thier argument was the cost that is implied by both them and you in producing a PDF of any document. My Canon can produce a decent PDF of any document. Total cost for a printer/scanner under £60 now. I even sent them a sample of document to show them the quality. Little or no staff instruction needed, no more than using a photocopier. Yes I did suggest volunteers to them. Their reply wasn't the above, but simply that the unions would not stand for it. And yes they said also about copyright material, after I said excluding it. However the other year I went with a group to Archives, where the person in charge seemed to have no problem with the use of digital cameras and the public bringing them in to use on documents which might have restrictions on them. Just because the place is jam-packed with material, doesn't mean a website as big as Picture Sheffield or even bigger would be needed. They could start small and work it bigger. They could even do them when things became in need of repair! And I'm not talking about anything bigger than an A4, using cheap materials to digitise, rather than going for the flash stuff they were on about, that includes Picture Sheffield. Even though I have different idea of how archive services should be run, doesn't mean I don't understand the problems it faces. Even by government standards it is not the best in the country. I was told by one of the staff once that the microfilm room at Shoreham Street wasn't up for the job and you can read PDF's on the council website of other issues they have. However I would never just assume that because they have the care of the 'irreplacable nature of the material', that the department that runs it is the best way it can be done. Indeed I would have to say that due to the high cost of going to town to visit even the Central book lending section, that in the past year I have not been there, so they have lost one loyal customer, as we are called by government departments now. That might tell you a bit about the service it provides. As I doubt I'm the only with this problem. It's somewhat ironic that my local library is now in the USA! And I don't have to wait an hour, pay bus fare, or telephone them in advance, to read a Sheffield history book. And I have copies of them, in a box no bigger than my foot Loads of them! And if I had poor eyesight or just needed to enlarge them, I can with ease.
  21. I think they should lose the title "Royal". It brings the Royal Family down having such a lousy service They are crap! They have lost many items sent to me, one an LP record. They can't deliver on time, they post in the wrong places. My Ant didn't get a pile of letters sent to her. Where did they go? The card in the letter box in the morning, when they don't want to deliver or wait to deliver something that will not go in the letterbox. We did knock! As John Wayne said "the hell ya did". I used to live near that Post Depot on Pit Lane. Letters were often chucked in the hedge near it. I have even seen a postman putting loads of letters in a letter collection point (red-box) that he was meant to be delivering. ...... <Personal Remarks Removed !!!> ..... Royal Mail your days are numbered =========================================== Observe the forum rules please. S
  22. They need to do it because for one thing the high cost of getting to the libarary is putting people off going. It protects the documents from being exposed to handling stress after the scan. It's better than waiting around to order something, then perhaps because you can't finish it coming back to do the same thing over and over again. If you follow the argument through Picture Sheffield would never got off the ground. As for the removal of my comment it was a good point, as many do argue that Council services are badly run and waste public money. The post shows that far from not wanting to provide the service I suggested to them, the Council did, but just wanted to do it with the ways it has always been done, plus at greater costs. Indeed they will let Google pay for it and have offered them books up to scan. Even though many Google scans are poor quality. I have seen ones where the scan operators fingers have been scanned. One even had plaster on his finger from a paper cut of a book So then they don't care about quality if they do pass the work to Google. I do take the point about the costs of such a website. But if the council cannot provide such services then shouldn't it lose those services to those that can?
  23. I suspect many of you are aware of places on the Web that have PDF's of historic books such as Internet Archive and Google. So not so long back I started to wonder why Sheffield Libraries have not set up a website for some of their archive documents and books in this format? After all some of the books (in PDF form) on Internet Archive are what are in Sheffield's Local Studies. Of course I sort of knew the answer - money! But when I asked them about it I found that it wasn't just about that. In fact they were just mostly breaucratic and I must say backward ways of thinking. Anyway let me first deal with the central issue that of the money. Well it is cheaper then you might think to digitise a book or document. For example it only takes one PC and one of those multi-function printers, both of which are not expensive. I myself have a Canon MP460 and all you need to do is place the thing that wants scanning on the glass and press a button. If it's a book you turn the page and click again and again.... Well you get the drift.... Then you save it as a PDF and it's done! Boring on long books, but you can't have everything. Of course you can't do anything bigger than A4 insize with one of these cheap devices, but even so you could scan a lot material reasonably quick that is in the above places. Of course you would need a website and the storage for the files, but I will let you decide if this makes the idea expensive. Anyway back to what Sheffield Libraries had to say to the idea. I have to say they used every excuse in the book. Starting with we have put a lot of money into Picture Sheffield to further this line. Then it was training staff. Yes well a monkey can push a button! Then it was down to quality and the fact they have to use files that seemed to be only used by spacecraft desingers. Wheras the PDF might become obselete, they said. Leaving them to do it all again. I could see I was dealing with Appleby of Yes Minster by now! PDF's are used in the computer world and even if they were to go extinct, somebody will come up with a cheap conversion system to keep old computers going. Then it seemed they just got overwhelemed with the thing, by saying what do we do first? And the excuses kept coming... So I gave up the dialogue with them. They were hoping that the likes of Ancestry UK would put money into doing the parish reg digitisation. Well if anyone from there is on, don't bother, you will waste money with these people. It was an idea that would have benefitted Sheffield a great deal, for a start you wouldn't need to book an appointment, wait hours to see documents and books. People around the world could see them and you don't need to go into Sheffield on expensive bus rides and so on... to see them. I went into LS a few months ago and saw a shelf of small books that I reckon I could have PDF in a week! Ah well such is life. ........... < Personal Comments Removed !!! > ............
  24. You are forgetting the cattle market. People bringing in the sheep etc, easy to lose one I would have thought. The person in charge of the Pinfold was the Pinder. And seeing that's a common name, even in Sheffield, a high turnover rate in the job! Not many people would like you with that job :(
  25. I have done a lot of research on Sheffield Park so I can clear up a lot of the name mysteries. Let's start with the Nunnery. In 1291 Waldingwells Nunnery (not far from Worksop) were given lands in Woodhouse, so it's likely they were given land in Sheffield Park from Thomas Furnival. It was a Benedictine order and lived under a rule, which was 'to work is to pray'. Water courses were altered by them, so hence the Kirk Dike, which is the one that flows in Deep Pit. You mention Harrison's Survey, undertaken by John Harrison of South Lopham in Norfolk. The names in it are interesting. The "Plauch" is the area around the building that used to be the Travellers Rest. At the top side of it is marshy ground, and one meaning of that word is marsh! But the plank idea also fits in, as what better way to get over boggy ground! The private path should not be confused with City Road. That is a turnpike road constructed in 1779. The Duke of Norfolk didn't want to pay the fees, so the old path was left. The only bit left is the jennel at the side of the old bakery shop at Manor Top. Other names include Georges Close, named after George Talbot. Stone Hurst, which was a MASSIVE wood that covered most of the Manor, filled with Sandstone rock outcrops. Blacko Plaine, cleared of trees (perhaps the odd one here and there) covered in coal outcrops. Faunsfield is where they kept th young deer. The Cundit Paine was also another cleared area, around where Deep Pits is. The Conduit was Kirk Dyke and was tapped off to supply water to Sheffield Manor. Blacko Plaine was later broken up into four sections around 1699 and in one a "New Stand" was constructed. This was on the site of Stand House School. Another Survey was done in 1685 (ACMS78) which fits a lot of the Fairbank's Map of 1795. Another pathway (using the 1795 map) to Lords Bridge can be traced coming over from Manor Lane, crossing over the stream using the said Lords Bridge, before heading up to what becomes known as Low Farm. In 1685 Edmund Corker held all the fields around the Lords Bridge, which was at the bottom of the hill going to it. So it would become known as Corker Bottoms Lane! Around this time the Duke of Norfolk tried to improve the Park and constructed a new gate, placed around where the Netto Car Park entrance is, which was called the "new intack yate" and is clearly the two posts which can be seen at Richmond, moved by the owner of the farm, as he also had land where they were. Also constructed was a stone wall that still can be seen where the Manor Estate Boot houses used to be. The Manor lane also entered into Attercliffe via a gate, called Marshalls Yate in 1685. Named after Henry Marshall. Manor Lane itself is a much later lane and it would not have been there in Tudor times. Instead two lanes, one to the front of the Manor and one to the rear, were there then. It's also interesting to note that Elm Tree Hill was first called Hutter Hill. I was also able to trace the life of one of the Park Keepers from the 1637 survey. James Wardlow was born 1567 and died in 1662 aged 95! He became the keeper in 1612 aged 45, so was 70 years old when the survey was done. His nephew John Barber said in 1692, that James was told by the Lord to stop anyone using the private path through Sheffield Park, adding that the Intake Gate was always kept locked.
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