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Kalfred

Sheffield History Member
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Everything posted by Kalfred

  1. Hope somehow this "stuff" gets back to Sheffield and can be seen. Kalfred
  2. I saw on line a nice image of a box and its 6 table knives that I thought some members of the forum might find of interest. I had a quick look to see if they would make a relevant addition to somebody else’s post. I did at first cause myself a problem by looking for “Wolstenholme George” in the search field but a helpful post I found told me the “e” at the end of the surname had been dropped. I looked carefully at my saved image again and saw I needed to be searching for “George Wostenholm” because not only was there no “e” but also no first “l”. Thus here I am with these, perhaps, less exciting knives but with a fantastic mini catalogue of some of the specialist items the company made. After trawling for my “G.W” on the forum I found I had a bit of confusion in my mind and felt a little bit of research was still needed. From our own forum I found the reference that “George Wostenholm, cutler's mark granted 22/12/1694” Then however it also seems that the Sheffield company of George Wolstenholme (born 1717 possibly) developed in 1745 though at Stannington just outside the City. George’s son Henry carried the business on until 1803 when George’s grandson, George 2, took over. The company moved to Sheffield, premises being called “Rockingham Works”, largely making razors and penknives. The difficulty of getting the “Wolstenholme” name on the latter’s small blades necessitated the shorter “Wostenholm” surname being generated. The 2nd George was in partnership with his own son George 3 in 1825 but died 1834 and the original George’s great grandson, George 3 carried on. Although I think there were too many “Georges” in this company, this George 3 installed the company into a new purpose built premises, Washington Works. This name was possibly chosen because of the large number of specialist knives that they sold to the USA. The reference below may be interesting. https://www.sheffieldhistory.co.uk/forums/topic/3082-hibbard-spencer-and-bartlett/?do=findComment&comment=13410 The company became “Ltd.” in 1875 but George 3 appears to have died in 1876, leaving a widow and no children. A reference said that for the years 1876-1880 the company gave annual average dividends of 10% on average profits of £10203. Just before WWI a “Thomas Gilbert Wolstenholme” came to the leadership of the company and made changes to take the company further into the 20th century. Things did not all go totally smoothly and there was even a misfortune in that damage occurred to the “Washington Works” due to WW2 bombing. Below are a couple more images for “Wostenholm and Son”. We have the cutlery box as shown previously plus another box and markings on the different blades they contained. If you look at the close up of the 2 boxes you can see the manufacturer’s name is described differently. The greenish box with the “Tally Ho!” trademark on has the company name “George Wostenholm & Son Ltd” while the other box lid has the company name “George Wostenholm & Son’s”. This could be dating evidence for the 2 lots of knives. My original thought was that “& Son’s” must have been later but then I remembered my English grammar and worked out it was cutlery “belonging” to only one son. I think the “Ltd” with the “Firth Stainless” knives is the most recent item but they may in fact not be very far apart in age. In 1971 another big Sheffield player “Joseph Rodgers” took over “Wostenholm” but in 1986 that pair along with their trademarks were part of the “Egginton Group”. This might be an example of “what goes around, comes around”. The “Tally Ho!” mark was bought by George 3 in 1860 from “M.Hunter’s”, he with his father having in 1826 already obtained their knife famed “I*XL” (I excel) trademark and in 1843 he had bought “The Pipe Trade Mark”. That mark being the “oldest cutlery trademark on the Register of the Sheffield Cutlers’ Company” and granted in 1694. Funny that year appears familia! Now, if the old company’s history was confusing with “Georges”, then the 20th history seems no different to me. Along with the Egginton Group claiming “Wostenholm” history another company established 1993, “TGW International” claims the same history. This latter company had its seed in the Wostenholm’s concern nurtured from 1908 by the “Thomas Gilbert Wolstenholme” noted earlier. Hopefully the “Big Players on The Forum” can sort this out for us. Kalfred
  3. Thanks Boginspro, I've tried with that map web site again and I think the "Roses" area was nearer to where the Winter Garden and the Mercure Hotel complex stand now.
  4. Thank you Boginspro and Edmund for bulking out my post. That old map web site you have referenced looks a very useful tool. It shows that the “Eyre Street” reference is in fact the road, next along, from Norfolk Lane so there must have been a chunk of buildings around there used over time by Lewis Rose. Am I correct in thinking that the University area is where “Roses” were? That 1957 picture of the chap at the Bowling Green Street works is very interesting as 21 Bowling Green Street was the address of the “Philip Ashberry” concern that “Roses” took over in 1935 (including knocking it down) and then developed post WW11.
  5. Hello I was recently (and not unusually) in a charity shop looking at some teaspoons in an open cutlery sized cardboard box. I was “umming and ahing” about buying these 6 Victorian electroplated spoons that lacked any “meaningful” maker’s marks. That was until I turned the box lid over. I paid the money and the box (and the spoons) were mine. The image of the box lid is below, and that box had nothing to do with the contents. I was going to tack my photo on to somebody else’s thread, but I was astounded to not find that neither “Debesco Works” or the “Lewis Rose” concern that was based there, or “Roses” renowned owner are referenced on the forum. I already knew “stuff” about the “Debesco trademark” and “Lewis Rose Company Ltd” from another forum and the below illustrated spoon (that once might well have been covered by a box lid like that in my photo) is one of my own favoured spoons for making a coffee with. It seems from a Sheffield museums reference that the “Lewis Rose Company Ltd” was set up in 1922 by Isadore Lewis starting in the Mappin Buildings in Norfolk Street. Debesco was their trademark and Debesco Works was the name of a possible expanded workplace on Norfolk St. and Norfolk Lane (a P.S. about this later). There is elsewhere a reference also to a Debesco works on Eyre St. More clarification required please. My interest in Lewis Rose was with spoons and forks but below is some bladed interest. It is speculation on my part to suggest that the “Firth’s Stainless” knives in the photo may be pre WW2 while the knives with what appears to be a “Larko” Lewis Rose trademark could be post WW2. By the way who know what "whitening" is? My wife told me 1 option. The Spear & Jackson Company acquired Lewis Rose in 1969 but since the post WW2 period Lewis Rose had been using the “Ashberry” name in its production, as it had acquired Sheffield’s “Peter Ashberry&Sons” prior to WW2. I have given some ideas about Lewis Rose but any observations that can add to the story or contradict things are definitely required. But now why is there no reference on the forum to “Isadore Lewis, described by Sheffield’s Museums as Sheffield’s first Jewish Lord Mayor. Reference http://collections.museums-sheffield.org.uk/view/people/asitem/items@null:415/0?t:state:flow=34948cb9-a938-479b-b915-8bf7884dffb2 That was in 1963 and below is my last photo to show some of what his company was doing in the War years. That’s it fulfilling War Department broad arrow contracts facilitating our Army to march on its stomach. If there are any more “anoraks” like me, the 1942 item was a spoon and the 1944 item was a fork. The L.R.& Co. Ltd. has also been attributed elsewhere to Lewis Rose. Kalfred P.s. A little question here about Norfolk Lane. It does not appear on Google maps, but a Norfolk Row is there. Norfolk Lane addresses are to be found in “Sheffield Indexers” but latest address was 1925. Picturesheffield.com photos “shows rear” Howard Street and Norfolk Lane and Norfolk Lane from Howard St. I hope “Edmund” of cartography fame can help again.
  6. Hello, I have been attracted here by Boginspro's reference to the “Era Works” but after my first picture of an ad from a Graces Guide dated 1951 I will need to take the edge off the conversation. Below is a composite photo featuring marks on 2 kitchen items I will loosely describe as spoons. “Era Silver” can easily seen on both items and it is not unusual for the name of the “works” name to become the trademark or vice versa. Unfortunately we do not see the “Barber” name at all in my photo. We see “E.G&Co” on the older spoon and “Homesneeda” on what was a large drainer spoon. We do not see either abbreviation for Thomas Ellin or Joseph Elloit. The “Homesneeda” item has the possible makers mark, “H.S” in the triangle, as I do not think that the triangle mark represents “nickel silver” electroplate. Is there any guidance anywhere to indicate what companies are using the “Era Silver” name? Kalfred
  7. Thank you Edmund again. Its great! Lost history not lost anymore and available to anyone who cares to search. Kalfred
  8. Sorry Tozzin, I was going to call it "Gran's Sunday fruit cocktail set" but I did not think anyone else would know what I meant. Kalfred
  9. Thank you Edmund, for adding some early history about this Sheffield “Richardson” cutlery concern. However do we need a spreadsheet for it now though? Too many “Westalls” and “Williams”, and not to mention four or five “Cavendish Works”. If we accept that the “Cavendish Works” on Cavendish Street was not used by Westall Richardson” we have the following list for Cavendish Works. 1854 Broomspring Lane 1872 Broomhall Street 1892 Sarah Street ( Google shows this to be in Rotherham) 1964 Morpeth Street (and Upper Allen Street which seems to be an adjoining street) Does anyone have any corrections or additions? I do have 2 other questions from Edmund’s input though. I wonder if the white ass with the brown spots was returned or did November 1857 give a few extra hearty dinners to the locals? Also who would have believed that Environmental Health was so much on the ball in 1866? Kalfred
  10. Hello, I’ve come back to this post 7 months on because I was researching something else and found a couple of images that stirred a memory. Below are 2 items that were made by “James Lodge Ltd” and the first one may have a “Lodge” trademark (official or otherwise). The “Sweetline” mark was inside the box of a large spoon and fork serving set but all the impressed marks on the flatware are of more interest to me as they may answer my own question from May. The 7 spoon dessert set carries the 2 makers’ marks shown below. The company’s full mark is carried on the finial of the large serving spoon and the abbreviated mark is on the small spoons. Additionally the mark impressed on the server pair carries the same simple “J.L” that is on that military cutlery. Unusually I might have guessed correctly? Kalfred
  11. Hello, a couple of days ago I my wife was using an old knife to trim up a square Xmas cake she had previously made. It was a big carving knife she had and being “me”, I had to check the blade markings. Picture is below. My wife said it had been her Grandma’s knife and apparently there had been a steel with it. I checked the “forum” for the company and the only detail I found was the address of the ”Cavendish Works” impressed on the blade, which happens to be on Cavendish Street. The inter net added 1839 Richardson was established in Sheffield by Westall Richardson 1984 Richardson change the company name to Richardson Sheffield Limited 1986 Richardson Sheffield Ltd is acquired by McPherson's Ltd, an Australian Housewares Company 2005 Richardson Sheffield become a privately owned company 2007 The Richardson Sheffield brand joins Amefa a Dutch concern 2013 1839 range of knives are launched, designed and finished in Sheffield Shop opens in Meadowhall Centre 2017 This is mainly the late history of the concern and elsewhere it is suggested that after “Amefa”, stuff was sourced from the far East. Where is the flesh on the top part of the skeleton of this “Westall Richardson”? I did find however, information that gave another address as follows. THE LONDON GAZETTE, 13TH OCTOBER 1964 Westall Richardson Ltd. Cavendish Works, Morpeth Street, and Regent Cutlery Works, Upper Allen Street, Sheffield 3. There must be more “meat” to go with making of this carving knife. I do not want to let the secret out that I left secondary school more than 5 years ago but family history should suggest that the knife was likely to have been made before WW2 and maybe well before. This looks like it was a very good quality item when made and viewing the handle with a lens does not suggest it is of bone but perhaps it is sadly of ivory. Nothing can be done about that now though. Does “Shear Steel” or “Hand Forged” give any dating? Hope my photo is of interest and will stimulate some more information. Kalfred
  12. Hello, I am sorry to say, I have no more information to offer but I have a composite picture to illustrate "G.A Axe & Co Ltd" products for War Department contracts. From titles on my original images I believe that the 1939 “Broad Arrow” Army item was a dessert spoon, the 1940 “Broad Arrow” item was a fork and the 1940 “Air Ministry (AM RAF)” item was a dessert spoon. A note with one of my images suggested I had also found a 1959 closure of the “Axe” cutlery business. Kalfred
  13. Hello, here I am again replying to an old thread that I came upon looking for information on Marples and Co. The lettering next to “M&Co” is as has been suggested “S” and a stylised “EP”. The “EP” is saying manufactured by electroplating as ”Vox” so rightly suggested and he is also correct in saying makers did put extra marks on electroplated ware to make the item look more like solid silver. These false types of marks are known as “pseudo hallmarks”. However the “S” should be an important thing to know as it is a good indication that the item was made in Sheffield. Yes I can see that Sheffield is marked underneath in full on this dish but many more items are smaller, as an electroplated teaspoon would be, and you have the full information in a short code. Thus you have the maker, the place and the manufacture method. The older the item the more likely you are to get the coding. A “B” is commonly present on old Birmingham pieces and “G” on some Glasgow made cutlery and “L” usually means London. Some diverse concerns with more than one “branch” would have possibly “S” & “L” to indicate Sheffield and London bases. Kalfred
  14. Hello there is a mistake, as you may have noticed in my post. This is a paragraph that should be under my first photo. The “T.G Ltd” mark, is referenced on the site “silvercollection.it”, to be a mark belonging to Tom Gilpin Ltd” of Sheffield and a reference I noted elsewhere, lead to a thread in the “Sheffield History Chat” section of our forum confirming Gilpins were based at 97 Mary Street Sheffield in 1965. Additionally some extra information came to that thread (thank you Edmund), touching on another Sheffield company named “T.E.Osborne Ltd”. The reference to that thread is below. There no doubt will be some more if I continue to post. Kalfred
  15. Hello, I have recently seen several images on line of forks and dessert spoons with a “T.G. Ltd” mark and a WW2 period date with the War Department “broad arrow” on them. An example is below. The “T.E.Osborne Ltd” was part owed by Tom Gilpin with a David Tom Gilpin. However their premises, the Abbey Works, Rockingham Street was compulsory purchased by the Sheffield council for slum clearance July 1939 (WW2 started on the 1st September 1939). Possibly this was a money source as “Tom Gilpin” appeared in 1939 to be setting up a complicated business as described as below. I did wonder if you could set up a “fork and spoon” business for just £500 in 1939, and to make cutlery for the War Department, or was it simply a retailing operation procuring and supplying the cutlery made by others. I am however lead to believe from a site on the inter net that the £500 would have been worth over £30,000 today. I have images with “T.G Ltd” on items dated for the years 1940, 42, 43 and 44. The 1940 item has the extra “S” usually indicating Sheffield manufacture and that is very often present in the maker’s marks on vintage and antique electroplated cutlery. Does anybody in “Sheffield Land” have more knowledge to add on Tom Gilpin’s wartime efforts or on the Gilpin concern in general. I will start you off on the last bit with some “Gilpin” marked blades and another (for those that viewed the other thread) cutlery box insert. What is the connection between Gilpins and “Smith Seymour”? We know from the 1965 reference that they appeared to work in the same unit in Mary Street. Can you tell me any more? Surely it must be more than just sharing a stationary bill or was “works” sharing commonplace in the Sheffield cutlery industry? Kalfred PS. Here is a reference for anybody interested in the Gilpin and the T.E. Osborne Ltd connection. https://library.croneri.co.uk/cch_uk/btc/34-tc-441 Surprisingly the Sipell Company crops up in this, seemingly buying up the remains of T.E.Osborne Ltd., late in the War period, maybe to make more “broad arrow” cutlery?
  16. Thank you Edmund, I was a bit worried that because this was an old thread, that I might need to wait a while for a response. However, just an overnight wait, and myself and the rest of the net have more information out “there” to be readily found and used. I need to ask now, how were you so fast with the extra facts. Am I just a poor researcher? Thank you again Kalfred
  17. Hello, an interest in researching some cutlery, with particular reference to the “Tom Gilpin Ltd” concern, has brought me to this old thread. There is little information on line, but I did come up with “Mary Street”. Your Kelly’s 1965 address guide above shows “Smith Seymour” and Tom Gilpin” at the same place. I have a lot of questions to ask but I will save those for another post a bit later in the “Made in Sheffield” section where they may be more relevant. In the meantime I have a picture of an insert from a box of spoons to offer here. There must have been a very close link between Smith Seymour and Gilpin’s and I note there is a discussion earlier about how “concerns” described themselves. Would there be demarcation between the “blade” makers and the “pressed electroplated cutlery” manufacturers. Nickel silver is mentioned here on the insert but elsewhere I have seen both the Smith Seymour and Gilpin names on various knife blades. Is there any one out there in forum land who knows a little bit more about "Tom Gilpin's" it than just the "Buffer Girls" photo? Kalfred
  18. Hello during the last year I have collected a couple of images with these makers marks on. They were marks on British Army cutlery. These “J.L” marks shown in my in composite photo brought me to this post. Both the marks in my photo show that the items were manufacture in 1955 and this is well in “Lodge’s” period of life. Are there out on the forum, people, with any more firm information that could identify the manufacturer of the cutlery with the pictured marks? I have seen on line a “J.L.Ltd” mark being attached to the “James Lodge” company along with “blades” on line with the full name on. Obviously I am hoping my “J.L” is that Sheffield manufacturer. Yours Kalfred Photo suggested to be a James Lodge Ltd mark
  19. Hello, thank you SteveHB and Tozzin for your responses. I checked again using “Fry & Wigfull” on the net. I found plenty of knives advertised with the full trade name for the company and the going out of business notification. Little else seemed to surface. Was the company “residual” from Lee & Wigfull or just a coincidence to have that particular Shefffield ”electroplate” name? I believe now that it is likely that the contract for my military knives was fulfilled by “Fry & Wigfull”, but it would be nice to have something more than “circumstantial” evidence. Thanks Kalfred
  20. Hello I am looking for some help from the Sheffield forum again. Below are some photos relating to some post WW2 army eating knifes. The blades definitely say “Sheffield England” and they seem to have been made by “F&W Ltd” or possibly “J &W Ltd”. The knives were issued in 1973 and 1970, but who were “F/J &W Ltd”. Are there people who worked on these knifes? Internet search doesn’t throw up much. There are references to other cutlery made by “F&W Ltd”, but no name. Is there anyone out there that knows? When it involves a military contract a good number of utensils must have been made and I hope more information can be found. Yours Kalfred
  21. Hello, thank you “RL” for your informative reply and “Boginspro” for your added photo. We can see that your long number is different from that on my fork. I have added a photo of a 1986 fork that I had previously informally identified as very likely to have been manufactured by Hiram Wild and it has the same “stock” number as shown on my “S&L.Ltd” fork and as described by “RL”. This “S&L.Ltd” fork and the “HW” fork are the same design and it can be seen their style is a different pattern from Boginspro’s fork. Military flatware is not what I collect but I always wish to know as much as possible about the flatware I come across and it is all the better if that information can be made available for others to maybe glean use from. I have kept quite a few other photos of War Department flatware. Thank you for your replies. Kalfred
  22. Hello, this is a photo of the markers marks on the handle of a 1980 Army fork. The crow’s foot mark indicates issue by the War Department and their items always had a date on. I assume the Army fork was manufactured in Sheffield. From the limited amount of references I have found on line it seems that the Slack and Barlow concern were producing cutlery around that time. From 1947 they were Slack & Barlow Sheffield Ltd and in 1974 they were using the Silverpride Works in Matilda Street. Now here comes my “leap of faith”. There are web-illustrated marks of “S&B” being used by Slack and Barlow but not the mark “S&L Ltd”. Is there any knowledge in the forum to back up my thoughts? Is there anybody who was working at the Silverpride Works during the late 1970’s who could add information? Thanks in hope. Kalfredl
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