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About Keith_exS10

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  1. I too have an interest in what moved that day but for an odd reason. As Sheffield History says there is nothing much if anything about about VE Day in the forums although it did affect us directly. VJ Day came later and being about events round the other side of the world made less impact. Anyway we had had enough by then and after the day life was no better for years. Nothing seems to have posted about the hours put in by the ladies organisations that voluntarily manned the canteens during the war years, It was called "Doing your bit" if they had not been drafted into the works by the Direction of Labour Regulations My mother coped with three places, each staffed by a different denomination church organisations. Every Thursday midday, works canteen Pomona Street 11 till 2pm. Every Thursday evening Forces canteen, YMCA Fargate 6 till 9pm. Every third Wednsday Forces (only) canteen Victoria Station 8pm till 6am., less often solely due to a surfeit of volunteers from the local Methodists .On these occasions I was boarded out to her parents for the night on Airedale Road. Very convenient then on the Thursday, tram from Middlewood to Ecclesall for High Storrs for one old penny. The German surrender was signed on Tuesday in time for the Wednesday to be declared a public holiday. Services were curtailed but there were trams to town from Ecclesall as usual. I opted to go for the night with mother to the station for 8pm expecting to see some activity. Wrong. Absolutely dead everywhere. Hopeully after all this time there may be some record; my rcollecion is that we were told on arrival that there would be no trains till the morning. Alternatively it was Sunday service so take your pick. My mother and the other lady volunteer were a bit put out. There were few night trains anyway, it was strictly forces only who either got off to go home or got on to go away Not as l recall any change of trains either so there never was much call for the canteen during the night. It was on the Manchester platform next to the Left Luggage Office. The railway staff were allowed in, in particular little Ernest, sometime relief signalman out to Penistone but now regular nights in Left Luggage. He told us about the lack of services but also that in spite of this the line was in fact fully manned . So sandwich making was put on hold. It began to drag till around midnight the Railway Police Sergeant came for his tea and buns. We got to talking, the outcome being my accompanying him on has rounds westward through the down Bridgehouses Yards as far as they went, up a short flight of steps to a door into the road for a quick look out. Nobody lurking so bolt the gate and back through the up sidings and so on to the Wicker Bridge. Not a soul anywhere. By this time it was somewhat after 2am. Being fully manned but with no trains the LNER had thoughtfully still provided the usual West End Pilot which was parked directly over the Wicker. As was then usual, a Great Central Large Director, whose number once more l forgot to record, damped down sitting quietly behind us. So for the next hour or so, the crew, the sergeant and me all stood leaning on the railings looking down at a flood of merrymakers aĺl milling happily and noisily about (licensing hours had been extended) and heading for the northern hills. A good time had apparently been had by all, except for those of us nominally on duty. Our only advantages were the welcome warmth from the engine and by 6 am the trams were running again. From personal observation I can say that the main train, 3.05 am Manchester to Lincoln and Grimsby did not run nor did anything else while we were there. I suspect without knowing that it is doubtful if anything had left Victoria that day but it would be nice to know definitely after seventy odd years. Very remiss of me not to have asked about that at the time. Mother's time was not wasted either. As usual she had sat and knitted socks for soldiers to keep awake.
  2. City of Sheffield Lancaster Bomber painting

    The Lancaster NX611 at East Kirkby spent the first seventeen years service in the Far East before being donated by the French for preservation and flown to Australia in 1964. It came back in 1965 and had a number of homes till it was specially authorised for its final three hour flight to Blackpool in 1970, well pre Eggbox.5677 It thereafter remained a static exhibit including thirteen years as R.A.F. Scampton gate guard from 1974. Taking up dunsbyowl's point, there is a lot of artistic licence about it. It was in good order when it came back to the U.K..but rarely flew once the owners at the time found out how much an hour it cost to run and maintain. There only seems to have only been one long flight, to Scampton and back for a Dambusters Anniversary some three years before it was grounded. I had the opportunity to look round inside it at Scampton about 1978 when the R.A.F. were looking after it by arrangement although it was by then privately owned. Being local and on the roadside we passed it most weeks whilst it was there and that causes me a problem. Altogether the picture looks authentic but it isn't. lt concerns me that it will at sometime be taken as evidence of a real accurrence and I have a feeling that that has already happened. Earlier in ths thread there are three Lancaster photos posted in 2007 as NX611 in flight to Graves Park. By then mobile yes, able to fly no. This has to be the other "City", PA474 City of Lincoln of the B.B.Memorial Flight at R.A.F. Coningsby Again are these going to be accepted. as posted? I suppose when NX611 gets airborne it could come over, but then the Eggbox is gone so that painting can't ever be replicated. I have to agree about the sound of four Merlins in full voice. During the war at Lincoln everybody got used to two engine noises ; the Lancaster and the Airspeed Oxford. Only something different like the odd Wellington made you look up. The day it was a Heinkel made everybody look. The Lancaster was THE bomber in Lincolnshire and remained so for years. We knew the Panton brother's story and their aspirations from the local press. Suddenly even getting a static Lanc. back at Scampton was something but times changed. One new C.O. of Scampton and it's Vulcans said in an interview that he wanted it away in favour of something more modern and caused an uproar. Heresy! Similarly when it came out in 1984 that it would be going, there was something similar until we heard the rest.. The Panton brother's had after sixteen or so years managed to by it for their new Lincolnshire museum. Engine overhauls in 1994/5 that allowed it to move under it's own power again pleased everybody. And it has gone on from there. One other view. It was common up to about 1970 for groups from the two remaining stations to visit the local works to see what went on. Most were newly qualified pilots but one occasion l had to do the tour for the new C.O. of R.A.F. Waddington with our M.D. in the rear. We did get round to comparing notes on our respective lives and I ultimately got round to the B.B. Lancaster. Had he flown it and what did he think of it, he being a Vulcan pilot? It was nice to hear he had a sort of soft spot for the Memorial Flight. However he found the Lancaster something of a handful and devoid of creature comforts. The lack of power assisted controls made him wonder how the wartime crews managed over several hours airbourne. His final opinion "It was like driving a mobile crane" Nice chap. He'd probably done that as well.
  3. Anyone remember this in the Sheaf Markets?

    Up to 1939 if fine we went every Saturday evening round the rag market. My recollection is a little different; an elderly lady with her highly polished scales on the town side of the main cross aisle somewhere near the middle. Certainly not under cover, which even then made me wonder what happened to them if it rained and were they left out all night. Altogether it still looks an awkward thing to have to move. I remember the bright light over the weight pan. As Lysander says the tank and vertical pipe are the upper part of a light, a naptha flare, a simple device advertised as being intended for fairground and market use. Liquid naptha flowed down the pipe which was heated by the flame to vaporise it, ending up in a ring burner with with about a dozen horizontal holes.Dead simple, with only a stop tap under the tank, huge ring of open flames, something of a fire risk and more or less gone by WW2. Effective but obsolete..
  4. My first acquaintance with the area was in 1939. Nice to see someone calling it the gennel. Mention just that and everyone knew where you meant. To us it was straight down and across to the Co-op for the milk tokens. ( never heard them called checks) or down Ecclesall Road to the cinema. Quite definitely the Banner Cross had been rebuilt by then as it extended over the last few yards of the gennel. Whilst it was always the gennel, if the subject came up as it only did now and again it became "Charlie Peace's Alley".We knew of the 1876 Dyson murder and Peace's ultimate execution in 1879 and not much else. There is an unbelievable amount of conflicting stories about the incident on various web sites. In the context of this thread there is a claim that there is a bullet mark on the stone lintel over the gennel. Not bad for a man who had been dead for fifty years or so before it was erected.
  5. Old Sheffield dishes

    Ukelele lady and rabbits stirred .memories. The Hounslow family had a shop on Middlewood Road opposite the Barracks entrance, principally a greengrocers I understand. During WW1 my mother aged twelve went regularly across the road with a basket selling fruit to the troops. Her other contribution to the business from about age ten which she delighted in telling us about in detail was her ability to carefully skin and clean rabbits and then hang them on a rail ready for sale. To complete the job the skins were neatly folded and bundled and regularly taken on the tram to a furrier in the Town centre. Grandma's final instruction was "And don't come back without getting sixpence apiece for them" Not sure about the kids not liking it, my wife was quite put off in middle age when mother demonstrated she could still do it.
  6. Old Sheffield dishes

    Thanks for that. I had thought it might be that originally
  7. Old Sheffield dishes

    Up to 1970 we timed our journies from and to Lincoln to pass the chip shop on the High Street at Swallownest when they were open. They did a very good proper fishcake. Sometime later we found a local chippie at Saxilby just outside Lincoln that sold them to the Sheffield weekend anglers who knew what they were and to the natives who didn't. The owner was not surprisingly a Sheffield expat. We sat in the car and ate them out of the paper; they were marvellous. Then he spoilt it by retiring in the 1980's and it wasn't the same after that. Then to Grandma's variation, seasoned pudding; Yorkshire pudding with thyme and parsley stirred into the mixture. For some reason this was always served first as about a 4" square with a similar one of ordinary Yorkshire pudding with gravy. Meat and veg then on the same plate. I see tripe gets honourable mention. Grandma coming from a Debyshire farming family knew what to do. Father would regale us with stories of going to the slaughterhouse when they lived at Hedley during WW1 to collect a cow's stomach. His next task was then to clean out all the grass content and wash it out. That put me off it permanently. Grandparents and parents all ate it either with vinegar or as tripe and onions boiled in milk. So did my wife. To me it seemed like chewing a rubber mat so I stuck to a cheese sandwich and looked on as they enjoyed it.
  8. To us it was always the Gas Offices where we went in the 1930s to pay the bill. Voldy may have thoughts on this but my recollection is that it kept to its purpose by only being lit by groups of gas lamps at the end of long down pipes from a high roof nicely placed over the big horseshoe counter. And there was the usual faint smell. After 1939 our next house had no gas so I have no idea how long that continued but even then it must have been one of the few still lit this way.
  9. Bus Companies of Sheffield Past

    A few odd elated thoughts. A family firm, Hulleys were always in Baslow and ran their first service in 1921. Harry died in 1971 and the three children retired in 1978 when J.H.Wolliscroft and Son ( Silver Service.of Darley Dale) bought them out. Thereafter the firm operated much as before but the name disappeared except for a few buses on the Matlock - Chesterfield service. In 1988 the stage carriage services were sold internally and the Hulley name restored but with no family connection. Currently there are some twenty vehicles on fifteen routes. It is recorded that over the years they have had 100 buses, only five of which were new. It was always a matey service out to serve its customers. A classic in Hulley family days must be the day excursion to London. Early morning departure, full day and then evening return with the the gaffer at the wheel. Arriving back at Baslow in the small hours no-one had paid because he had still not worked out what the fare was going to be. On one occasion when I was about twelve I went to Baslow with my uncle who as usual had "a bit of business to do". He had bought a dozen pullets about eight weeks old. We each had a sack with six in, walked to Calver, boarded the Tideswell bus and sat with a lively clucking sack on our knees. No-one batted an eyelid and the pullets travelled free. We got off at Foolow to walk the last two miles home. I doubt we could have done that on an 84 Corporation bus. Going on one of their buses as a Bakewell Show feeder seems quite tame. The Tideswell operator was Harold Andrews, owner and driver, a small fleet in the 1950s but now a large international tour operator. A hearty Derbyshire man, nothing bothered him. Discovering my family originated at the next farm down the road and were still active in the local area we got on well..In 1951 as his first trip abroad he took a bus load of us to Switzerland, to S-chanf in Graubunden, some miles up the valley past St. Moritz in a reasonably tidy Leyland halfcab diesel coach, requiring several hundred miles of driving on the wrong side plus Alpine roads.. I asked about this, his response being that he had a contract to take the local quarrymen from Tideswell to Earles Cement works at Hope for a 6 a.m. start. so he had practiced for several weeks by doing most of the journey on the wrong side as there was only the milk lorry about at that time of day. The more nervous of his pssengers were subdued with a few well chosen words. To be sure, the coach had also been back to the Leyland works, checked, serviced and declared fit to go. Once into Switzerland it duly had a problem under the bonnet but got us there. Kept quiet from the party it transpired that the system was over fuelling the engine, nasty but apparently that had enabled us to get up and over two vicious Swiss passes. Harold had said the obviously lower gearing of the local buses gave them a distinct climbing advantage. No Leyland service so it was up.with the bonnet, off with the faulty unit, back across Switzerland to the Saurer works who kindly dismantled and rebuilt it by making their bits fit, tested and calibrated it and sent him on his way. Once refitted it worked and we were back in business. I would have been annoyed; to Harold it was just one of those things. Probably as well that it was an oldfashioned simple diesel bus. Two firms that did their best for a local community. Cant be many left like them.
  10. High Storrs School

    My belated thanks for some intriguing info. Surprised to learn that some staff were still there that I assumed would have retired, notably Pole (in my day) Robinson. That puts them contemporary with my father who was called up at forty two. I don't remember teaching being a reserved occupation and none of them looked medically unfit. Monty in my day was an expert gymnast on the horse and very obviously fit. No consequence now I suppose. The big one is the early demise of George Mack who strode smartly about everywhere. He did disappear once for a few days and then turned up with an arm in plaster. It transpired Mrs. Mack had suggested not very tactfully that he was not the same and challenged him to a weekend in the Lake District . Great Gable won, but at least he tried. With all the upheaval it was surprising that High Storrs had few refugees to deal with. The earliest was Pedro Albaya da Gago, whose family fled the Spanish Civil War and had perfect English. Next came the Zilzer brothers Carl and Ernie, resonable English with a German overlay. Carl was a Modern man, Ernie a definite Science man, better than most of us if truth be told. All these three came and simply fitted in. The last were two Austrian brothers about third/fourth year level. The state sent them to be educated and that was that. Total lack of English was a problem apart from them being in modern parlance a right pair of tearaways. Where they should be was one thing; where they actually were and doing what was something else. Joe Collier being the only one who could penetrate the thick Viennese Austrian found himself in charge, not to his liking, and for once he surprisingly spoke his thoughts to us. To everybody's relief they disappeared after a few months. Normal service was resumed. Surprising how things come to.mind years after. By walking, cycling or tram and bus we got to school from all round the city. Somehow I don't remember seeing the staff coming or going. We did presume they all had homes to go to, so what. The one exception was the Shaws, father (maths) and son. who lived opposite the school entrance and came separately. I found that at least Pharoah Smith could walk. Meeting him one day early on I dutifully touched the cap neb and got the full force. To show respect properly the cap will be raised at least.six inches, held for the formal " Good Morning Sir" and replaced. Was that clear? It was. It was also mid Saturday morning way down Psalter Lane. Something else quite rightly not practiced today I hope. Wonder if there was any truth in the story as to how he got his nickname? Petrol came on ration but there were few vehicles available so there were none parked in the grounds at all even by the staff. Ocasionally Pole's car would be seen about the place, the oldest smallest Morris saloon in captivity but again not in the grounds. At that time a sixthformer could legally drive a motorcycle which George Mack let the upper school know would not be permitted on the premises. Chance wo0uld have been a fine thing, (beyond our pockets). We had in the form one Sam Taylor who lived at Fulwood. not far as the crow flies but not easy by normal means. He acquired an elderly noisy 1920-something B.S.A. and turned up on it. However he went past the entrance and parked in the back of the corner.property of Ringinglow and High Storrs Roads next door to the Shaws. From there he walked the fifty yards to school with his perpetual grin. George Mack had evidently noticed it but was furious at being unable to stop Sam parking his bike in Grandma's backyard all day. I look across at the school over my fence with it's crowded car park and think how times have changed. One thing is nearly the same. School buses packed to the doors as in the 1940s but they all have a mobile phone in their hand.
  11. Where was this?

    As memory serves the top photo had a good airing late last year under the heading SHEAF MARKET Sheffield.
  12. The Goodwin Fountain

    His other passion was golf. At this same period there were suggestions that he had funded improvements to the facilities at Lindrick on the A57 to make it suitable for hosting the 1957 Ryder Cup. Certainly his generous financial contribution to the competition costs is on record. At the time which came first was never clear. The Americans came and lost for the first time since 1933 so he was presumably happy. .
  13. Extinct Sheffield Food Brands

    Gunstones did make biscuits. I saw that in the original bakery somewhere near the bottom of City Road. I remember a huge dial on the rolls calibrated in 1/64" to control.the mixture thickness. The guide pointed out that the finished packets were sold by weight, either under or over being illegal so the individual biscuits had to be spot on. If not the Weights and Measures inspectors got upset. (Under-- fraud, over--unfair competition) We went round the new plant at Unstone; presumably they still did but all I remember is the time spent on spelling out how they producefd perfect sterlile sliced bread. Prewar, 0 Reels icecream was made in a building in the common backyard of houses on Unstone Street, Denby Street and Bramall Lane. Conveniently family friends lived next door and on Saturday evenings all the local kids gathered after tea waiting for the men pushing their hand carts back to base. Each cart had a big insulated container which was left on the barrow on Unstone Street while we cleaned out what was unsold. We had the freedom of the cone box. Summer was poor, sales were good. Before and after were better times. Winter was close season. A family firm I believe, it looked nothing outside but was spotless inside. Being free it tasted better.
  14. The Green Tram...

    If I may add my thoughts very belatedly to an old thread which seems to have got a bit convoluted There were a few grey trams and buses as a wartime expedient which were rapidly repainted as soon as practicable. Later came the wartime Mark 1 austerity buses in at least two shades of grey. Their horrible wood slatted seats were of more concern than the colour. There were green trams in 1952 which caused a furore at the time . That rules out the Bradford trams which were all withdrawn in 1951 Sheffield looked into buying trams from a number of operators to cope with wartime demand particularly to the East End and to cover for the fourteen lost in the blitz.. Both the Newcastle and the Bradford trams were surplus to their requirements and were in a poor state. Both types needed body rework plus enclosing the balconies and the Bradford trams also needed regauging from 4 foot to 4 foot 8.1/2 gauge. Neither would be easy with wartime shortages but needs must. Mega monty's hphoto of 325 ex Bradford is perhaps a fortunate choice as it was actually the first one to be reconditioned. The normal colour was the odd one variously described but certainly not green which gives the wrong impression or all over blue if that is what Hjdary is suggesting. I remember them as brown which they carried throughout their service in Sheffield. As originally out shopped in 1943 they had headlamp masks, white fenders and side stripes on the bottom edge of the body so we wouldn't trip over them in the dark.. These markings were removed quite quickly after the war and are missing on the photo of 325, so 1947-1951. However only 325 came out horiginally in allover grey apart from the white visibility markings, a scheme which I must admit I never remember seeing . The shade in the photo seems to me to be the usual brown with white window surrounds so has it been repainted at some time. No Bradford ever carried either of the passenger car liveries. . No. 330 came out in azure blue and cream but then only after being cut down for use as a works car on withdrawal with the rest in 1951. One odd minor mystery. David Voice in "Works Tramcars of the British Isles" lists some 50 Sheffield works cars in total, no mention of a railgrinder. Three including 330 are listed as water cars which may be the same though other undertakings list both types. Rather late in the day to be doing a conversion perhaps which I remember being described at the time as a railgrinder. We did hope it would do something about the perpetual bad patch inbound just short of Summerfield Street on Ecclesall Road but with only a couple of years left on that route nothing happened. The Newcastle trams entered service in 1941 and as posted were always in the azure livery which was rather odd as a number of the regular cars and some buses had appeared in genuine grey livery. They had acquired closed balconies which oddly had expensive curved corner windows. (wartime shortages, not easy come by and all that) and closely resembled the existing U.E.C. cars, the obvious differences being not only the azure blue but the fact that all but three had no end destination boxes. That caused some wartime difficulties at stops where several routes loaded. Fitzalan Square, top of Angel Street or Church Street had dedicated stops for specific routes. At places like Moorhead out bound there were passengers waiting for Ecclesall, Fulwood, Millhouses, Beauchief, and Meadowhead in a mass. Only when the Newcastle tram was actually at the stop could the side indicators be read so anybody knew whether it was going their way. Then there was a scrum as the queue broke up to board, and if the tram was full, another one as the unlucky ones tried to slot back where thythought they had been in the queue to start with. Things often got a bit fraught. Overall the Newcastle trams were generally accepted by passengers as being as good as ours. Bradford trams were not so popular but it was them or nothing particularly if wet. The problem for crew and passengers was that being built for 4 foot gauge they were noticeably narrower. Upstairs was passable, no standing. Downstairs with only the conductor's idea as to how many standing passengers to allow (Forget five or eight, well into double figures was common at least in the war) passing in the gangway to get off or collect fares was difficult to say the least. Passing your fare down the car to a conductress on the platform and hoping for a ticket and change to come back was not uncommon.. Some slight help came from the Auxiliary Conductor scheme. They were not over popular with the natives either. Volunteers, they could walk to the head of a queue., put on their armband, take over the platform duties. and travel home free. Another endearing trait originally was the Bradford's tendency to tail wag to which fortunately Queens Road found a solution. Couple that with the fact that they could move when pushed made for an interesting ride at times. Ultimately both types were only used for morning and evening rush hour traffic or to and from Bramall Lane or Owlerton. Rarely were they seen in normal service. No doubt building replacements for the blitzed cars helped the situation. My regular contact in the years I came home from High Storrs was to wait for one of each which arrived on weekdays at Ecclesall terminus at 4.30., often together. We liked the Newcastles, the half turn stairs being a novelty. They also had upper deck bulkheads with a sliding door so we travelled in state on the front balcony with the door shut looking down on the driver. Leaving Eclesall with City Fitzalan Square on the indicator craftily got them empty in town to pick up for a journey to the East End, pick up from the works, one journey to the south using Paternoster Row and Furnival Street , then home for the night. Again, a Bradford tram regularly came up to Ecclesall at about 8.30 for the morning rush and there was an earlier short working turning at Rustlings Road. Both types when purchased were stored as being surplus and life expired. Both required a deal of work to get them useable, including laying a length of 4 foot gauge track in the wheel shop to assist in the regauging of the Bradfords. Altogether it must have cost, particularly as the rebuilds were not bodged up in any way. Then suddenly they had gone. As closure loomed various route tours or last type journies were organised by the enthusiasts. There was a four tram tour of the generally similar U.E.C. four window cars but nobody seems to have marked the passing of the Newcastles and the Bradfords. Little seems to have been noted down. They were a stop gap with a short life expectancy and that was that. One aspect I have so far not found was which routes were they allowed on or banned from. Walkley and City Road spring to mind as possible no-go. There may not have been prohibitions as the intention was for to be used on the level routes to the East End. I have already speculated elsewhere that nobody would know and been immediately flooded. So..........
  15. Journeyman

    A few small points missing so far. Dating back to the mediaeval trade guilds, an apprentice finishes his training and receives his indentures to recognise his ability to work up to a standard.He is then a journeyman, accepted as being capable of working at his trade without supervision. In general this lasted for five years, after which time he was then accepted as being a tradesman and so able to train others. In my dealings with the trades unions in the mid to late 1900s the term had become largely academic. Some craft unions still recognised it although the rates of pay were for tradesmen or apprentices only. . We did however have three rates for draughtsmen and some technicians who were still being classified as apprentices, then journeymen and finally regarded as fully qualified. You could bet on the union rep.coming in to remind me that someone would soon be twenty six and would I check that Salaries Dept. had noted it. Our attitude like many others was that we had trained them and were happy to see them continue with us. Originally at twenty one they struck out on their own. Some companies terminated their employment at twenty one, the suspicion being that a new apprentice was cheaper to run than a new journeyman. There was a different take on that of which the London and North Western Railway was an example. A new journeyman was automatically dismissed for his own good so he could gain wider experience After the five years he would be guaranteed a job with them if he so wished. A sort of thinly disguised early form of industrial.espionage perhaps? As we have suddenly reinvented apprenticeships I wonder if there will be any more journeymen?. Suppose that should be journeypersons nowadays.