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lysander last won the day on October 17

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About lysander

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    Local History, transport, politics

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  1. Sheffield City Centre photo challenge

    Wasn't the Corn Exchange severely damaged by a fire?
  2. This is how Leopold Street used to look

    Thank you...that's the one!
  3. This is how Leopold Street used to look

    That's not the name I have hidden away in the depths of my memory but thanks for suggesting it.
  4. But we weren't just discussing a railway breakdown were we? I suggest that all forms of transport have required legislation and have only become safer with more knowledge and better technology...and that railways are no different....hence the details of shipping casualties. You seemed to suggest that early railways were lacking in safety because of a the profit motive, and this may well have been true in the very early days ( although stats show otherwise) but at the time of this crash that was far from the truth...as my own Grandfather, who drove for the GCR ,would have attested. He always maintained railways were the safest mode of travel and drivers regularly had physical examinations to ensure their fitness to drive as well as tests...all of which was overseen by HM Inspector of Railways. Not all technical problems with commercial aviation result in crashes either or, as in the amazing case of an Air Transat flight , running out of fuel because of human error, midway across the Atlantic, did! Back to the Woodhouse crash I think the loco was one of Parker's class 2 ,of which 24 were constructed, and the immigrant train was an especially interesting part of social history .Eastern Europeans( many being Jews escaping pogroms) emigrating to the USA, having crossed western Europe, caught railway steamers to the Humber ports and thence trains to take them across to Liverpool and onward to America.
  5. Well, we are all entitled to our opinions, be they guided by TV or by life experience. I say that because my maternal ancestors worked for the MS& L R, GCR, LNER and BR and I grew up with seeing the rule books, visiting the engine sheds and talking with a very proud, very erudite, very political train driving grandfather....so I am rather biased. To revert to your comments about loses of ships I am afraid statistics tell a very different tale. Research undertaken in 2000/2001 on the causes of 500 ship losses that year and the consequent loss of life are listed as follows : Weather...causing the stranding of ships in fog or gales. Engine failure...the loss of power making the ship unmanageable especially in bad weather and, consequently, foundering. Collisions ...with other ships or obstructions. Navigation errors. Age of ship and structural defects. Leaks. Explosions on board ships equipment or cargo. Terrorism. Insurance fraud. And all that with legislation, navigation aids , weather forecasting, radar and modern technology...Hardly just "stopping is it?
  6. I take your point but feel you are rather exaggerating, bearing in mind the rapid growth of railways in the UK ( and throughout the world) You state that it took "a great deal of legislation to get the Railway Companies to introduce safety measures" . Yet, the first Act, as I have already stated, was in 1840 and an Inspectorate established in the same year... According to records some 4 serious accidents ,involving loss of life or serious maiming ,occurred in the UK in the ten year period following the death of Huskisson . Accidents, mainly involving human error or the failure of components,occurred throughout the world and lessons were learned ( how I hate that phrase) You mention safety at sea but, surely, the nearest parallel is civil aviation which in 100 years has grown from the dangerous pastime of "idiots" to the safest mode of travel. Was this entirely by dint of legislation or was it by learning from mistakes; from improving materials and research? I think the CAA would say it was all as, indeed, is the case with railways. In my time in the steel industry I can remember when drinking beer at work was especially encouraged for those doing hot manual work such as furnaceman and , indeed,Brown Bayley Steels had a pub entrance built within its walls ...which had permission to open outside the then licensing hours In the EU, as late as the 1980's, German steel manufacturers, Zollern Stahl und Metal, had beer dispensers in their factories selling 330ml bottles for a few pfennigs. How times change...but we are a history forum and instead of holding our hands up in shock horror we should try and understand...Without understanding we learn little.
  7. The railways have always been interested in safety...almost from day one when ,in 1830, Wm.Huskisson ,MP for Liverpool, was killed on the inaugural journey on the Liverpool to Manchester Railway. In 1840 the Railway Regulation Act was passed and H.M. Inspectorate of Railways established to oversee matters of safety .Laws and regulations ( including large rule books )were introduced at an early stage and improvements made as time progressed and knowledge increased. In fact the GCR was at the forefront of safety and some of their latest coaches had safety features not generally repeated until the 1970's. I think HD is over critical ,forgetting that improvements in Health and Safety have , in general, multiplied exponentially in the latter part of the 20th century. I worked in the steel industry and remembering some of its practices, whilst I was a lad, am amazed there weren't far more fatalities and serious injuries...a "bursting" roll or box on the mill train ; water accidently entering a furnace, an exploding grinding wheel or a cobble could cause mayhem...and that was just in a rolling mill!
  8. More than nowadays but we still have them despite rails good safety record.
  9. Life in Sheffield in the 1980's

    Miners strike and demonstrations...steelworkers strike and demonstrations...police brutality at Orgreave and the last cavalry charge ...Mrs T...mass unemployment... the decimation of Sheffield's staple industries and Beer at a reasonable price to be enjoyed with a Benson and Hedges whilst stood at the crowded bar at lunchtime...That's what I remember of life 30+ years ago.
  10. This is how Leopold Street used to look

    Apart from H L Brown there was another, smaller, jeweller on Leopold Street in the 1940/50's . I wonder if anyone can remember it's name?
  11. Bakeries

    My aunt knew the Fletchers and was always puzzled how a self confessed Communist could have built up a successful capitalist business.
  12. I heard a story the other day which may ,or may not be true. A local VC winner was on his way, by train, in his brand new suit to be presented with his medal by King George. A woman seeing him in his civvies went over to him and presented him with a white feather. He quietly accepted it and said 'nowt.
  13. The Crimea Monument

    So do I...but I do find it very strange that the Crimean War memorial should have been largely forgotten...if not destroyed... whilst the trees have received so much publicity.Stone memorials only "die" from neglect and ignorance, whereas, trees planted a century ago have a finite life. One memorial has virtually no current political interest whereas, the other has! Surely, the answer could be to combine the two in an area not "threatened" by traffic or town planners...in other words, a memorial arboretum. I know this idea has been posited in the local press.
  14. Sheffield Markets and The Gallery

    I shopped in the market and the galleries from time to time. I even went to a works dinner somewhere on the top floor which had function room when first opened.
  15. Westfield. Any info?

    That's interesting. It caused me to re-examine my maps and I find the farm ( on the 1884 map...not 1881 as I stated) is quite clearly marked as Westfield Farm and is the only farm noted in the immediate area. I then looked at a copy of an OS dated circa 1850 and note that there are two farms. One is marked...Westfield and the one to the south is Waterthorpe....with the former on what is now Waterthorpe Estate and the latter on Westfield. I cannot explain the transposition of the names or why Mosborough has a Westfield estate but I believe the naming of just one farm on the more recent map was because of the maps scale. Kelly's Directory for 1930 show Edwin Peat and Roland Peat as living on Station Road. Edwin is described as a "cattle dealer" and Roland as a "farmer. I believe the last of the land they owned has recently been sold for a small housing development on School Street....despite what I am led to believe were restrictive covenants in the Will. Some of the Peats had become wealthy by livestock trading and by the sale of land for Sheffield's expansion. By all accounts some of them were eccentric ,to say the least...with tales of them driving , slowly, down the middle of the road as well as ignoring other road users whilst moving livestock. They were also local philanthropists regularly giving Christmas presents to the areas poor OAP's.