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Peter Hall

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Peter Hall last won the day on July 25 2019

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  1. An updated list of Surviving vehicles acquired new / second hand or loaned to SYPTE. Surviving South Yorkshire PTE motorbuses Single-deckers 80 KCR 108P Leyland National 10351/2R / Leyland (ex Portsmouth) 79 KSO 74P Leyland National 10351/2R / Leyland (ex Grampian) 11 AAK 111T Leyland National 10351B/1R / Leyland 1075 FWA 475V Leyland National NL106L11/1R / Leyland 22 KWA 22W Leyland National NL116L11/1R / Leyland 76 B976 DWG Dennis Dorchester / Plaxton (B674 GWJ) 41 C41 HDT Dennis Domino / Optare 53 C53 HDT Dennis Domino / Optare Single-deckers hired during 1981 crisis 1972 GAT 180D Leyland Panther PSUR1/1 / Roe (hired from Kingston upon Hull CT 3-4/81) Single-deckers hired for trials and evaluation 1004 GNC 276N Seddon-Lucas / Pennine (hired from GMPTE) Bendi-buses 2006 CRM 927T Leyland-DAB / Leyland 2009 FHE 292V Leyland-DAB / Leyland 2010 FWA 450V Leyland-DAB / Leyland 2013 C113 HDT Leyland-DAB /Leyland-DAB Double-deckers 377 LWB 377P Ailsa B55-10 / Van-Hool McArdle 388 LWB 388P Ailsa B55-10 / Van-Hool McArdle 1647 XWG 647T Leyland Atlantean AN68A/1R / Roe 1655 XWG 655T Leyland Atlantean AN68A/1R / Roe 1696 CWG 696V Leyland Atlantean AN68A/1R / Alexander 1707 CWG 707V Leyland Atlantean AN68A/1R / Alexander 1756 CWG 756V Leyland Atlantean AN68A/1R / Roe 1861 JHE 161W Metrobus DR104 / MCW 1781 JKW 281W Leyland Atlantean AN68B/1R / Alexander 1790 JKW 290W Leyland Atlantean AN68B/1R / Alexander 1831 JKW 331W Leyland Atlantean AN68B/1R / Marshall 2120 KKU 120W Dennis Dominator / Alexander 2214 NKU 214X Dennis Dominator / Alexander 2260 SDT 260Y Dennis Dominator / Alexander 2298 A298 XAK Dennis Dominator / Alexander 2317 A317 XAK Dennis Dominator / Northern Counties 1918 A118 XWE Metrobus DR104 / MCW 2414 A414 YAK Dennis Dominator / Alexander 2361 B361 CDT Dennis Domiator / East Lancs 2450 C45 HDT Dennis Dominator / Alexander –hybrid trolleybus 2457 C877 JWE Dennis Dominator / Alexander 2462 C882 JWE Dennis Dominator / Alexander 2479 D479 OWE Dennis Dominator / Alexander 2489 D489 OWE Dennis Dominator / Alexander Double-deckers hired during 1981 crisis 1964 PBC 98G Leyland Atlantean PDR1A/1 / ECW (hired from Leicester CT 3-6/81) 1938 WHN 411G Bristol VRTSL6G / ECW (hired from Lincolnshire RCC 4/81) Double-deckers hired for trials and evaluation 500 TOJ 592S Metrobus DR101/2 / MCW (hired from MCW – famous five) 530 NHG 732P Leyland Titan B15 / Park Royal (hired from Leyland – famous five) Surviving SYPTE Support vehicles M51 DSA 987 AEC Matador Recovery (previously Salford City Transport)
  2. With the South Yorkshire Transport Trust 2019 Open Day a few days away I been updating my lists of Surviving SYPTE and Constituents buses. Below is my listing of SJOC/STD vehicles along with those of the absorbed independents that ran into Sheffield. Surviving Sheffield (SJOC/STD) motorbuses Single-deckers 216 JWB 416 Leyland PS1 / Weymann 54 DWB 54H AEC Swift / Park Royal Double-deckers 116 OWE 116 AEC Regent III / Roe 687 RWB 87 Leyland PD2/12 / Weymann 525 1925 WA AEC Bridgemaster / Park Royal 1156 3156 WE Leyland PD2/30 / Roe (3156) 904 3904 WE Leyland PD3/1 / Roe (used as DIV) (D14) 1330 6330 WJ AEC Regent V / Roe 874 7874 WJ AEC Regent V / Alexander 1357 657 BWB Leyland Atlantean PDR1/1 / Park Royal (used as DIV) (227 – M120) 1148 DWB 148H Leyland Atlantean PDR2/1 / Park Royal converted to roadshow bus (748) 257 NWA 257K Daimler Fleetline /Alexander 271 OWE 271K Bristol VRT / East Lancs 287 SWB 287L Leyland Atlantean / Alexander 293 UWA 293L Leyland Atlantean / Alexander 296 UWA 296L Leyland Atlantean / Alexander 312 UWA 312L Leyland Atlantean / East Lancs 754 WWJ 754M Daimler Fleetline / Park Royal Ordered by STD delivered to SYPTE 836 GNA 836N Daimler Fleetline / ECW 1515 OKW 515R Daimler Fleetline / MCW (DMS style) – were to have been Alexander 1534 PWE 534R Daimler Fleetline / Alexander Double-deckers cut down 3108 CWJ 410 AEC Regent / Weymann converted to tower wagon (TW58) 4624 GWJ 724 AEC Regent / Sheffield converted to gritting/towing wagon (G54) 255 KWE 255 AEC Regent III / Roe converted to gritting/towing wagon (G55) 913 3913 WE Leyland PD3/1 / Roe converted to gritting/towing wagon (M10) (OWJ 357A) 475 4475 WE Leyland PD3/1 / Roe converted to gritting/towing wagon (M52) (OWJ 388A) Double-deckers re-bodied after disposal 287 CWB 987 Leyland TD4C / Cravens ( re-bodied c1952 by Crossville with ex Salford Metro-Cammell body) Surviving Sheffield (SJOC/STD) support vehicles T47 KWJ 681 Fordson TN Tractor L42 RWE 101 Leyland Comet Lorry Surviving Booth & Fisher Motor Services motorbuses Single-deckers ---- TUH 14 Albion Nimbus NS3N / Harrington (ex Western Welsh) ---- WRA 12 AEC Monocoach / Park Royal 1086 334 NKT AEC Reliance 2MU3RV / Weymann (ex Maidstone & District) 1088 340 NKT AEC Reliance 2MU3RV / Weymann (ex Maidstone & District) Surviving Dearneways motorbuses Single-deckers 1092 AWJ 292T Leyland Leopard PSU3E/4R / Plaxton C51F (368 SHX)
  3. Quick reminder that the annual Open Day of the South Yorkshire Transport Trust is the coming Sunday 21st July 2019. Further details at http://www.sytt.org.uk/summer-open-day
  4. Section C is passenger only I'm afraid. No copies of the relevant freight timetables in my collection I am afraid.
  5. Closest I have is WTT Section C for 3/67 - 5/68 but will need to dig it out if you think it might help. Fairly sure includes Victoria.
  6. Lemmy17 is correct about only four Tram Trains having the correct wheel profiles to operate on heavy rail lines. Initially these were 201-204 but the first day altercation resulted in 206 being given such profiles. Today's altercation involving I believe 202 may mean 205 or 207 might need similar treatment. Three are required for the Parkgate service with the fourth normally on the depot in reserve..
  7. Understand it was quite well publicised on buses the users of which were presumably the principal audience. Spoke to someone who took their son and they gave it the thumbs up. There was a time when the local bus, trolleybus and tram networks reflected civic pride. Open days I feel are a good way of rekindling that especially when a selection of vehicles from the past in traditional colours are included. The efforts of those involved in making these things happen are appreciated.
  8. Having not so far been reprimanded for straying over the boundary into Rotherham I will tempt fate by adding an updated list of all known survivors of Rotherham Corporation Transport (RCT) motorbuses, trolleybuses and support vehicles in Great Britain, three in each category. Actually a very small number when compared with other municipal operations of a similar size. Of particular note is FET 218 the Austin K8 Welders Truck dating back to 1949. Although sold into preservation by SYPTE in 1977 it had been presumed the lack of any reports in recent years were an indication that it no longer survived. That however was not the case and in the last couple of months ownership has changed and it has returned to South Yorkshire. Despite being stored in the open for over twenty years it is in reasonable condition with a full restoration expected to get underway shortly No photographs of FET 218 in service have yet emerged so if anyone has any please make contact. It now has a pick-up style of back which during its later days had a frame with canvas cover. Whether this was how it was originally configured is not known for sure as a previous owner recalls that it may have originally had a conventional van body that was cut down by RCT at some point. Thus the appeal for photographs. Although a number of Austin K8's have been restored, pictures of which can be found on the net, none have a similar pick up style back which does suggest that the one on FET 218 may be a product of the Rawmarsh Road body shop.
  9. Those with long memories may recall the https://www.sheffieldhistory.co.uk/forums/topic/9499-white-lion/ where the mystery surrounding the demise of experimental diesel locomotive 'Lion' was revealed. This being one of a large number of steam and diesel locomotives that was scrapped in Sheffield and the surrounding area in the 1960's and 1970's after seeing British Railways service. Over the years various publications and listings have appeared detailing the scrapping of these locomotives at the local yards of T. W. Ward, C. F. Booth, Arnott Young, Slag Reduction Company and G. Cohen to name just a few. However, much is not known about which locomotives were scrapped where and when. Also, unfortunately a number of errors have crept into the published listings, some accidental, some malicious. Around ten years ago the 'What Really Happened to Steam' project https://www.whatreallyhappenedtosteam.co.uk/ was launched and has made good progress in establishing what was the true disposal of many of the locomotives but many mysteries remain to be resolved. Whilst many local railway enthusiasts have been in contact with the project and provided observations and photographs which have proved invaluable the project is conscious that those with a more broader and general interest in local history may also be able to help. Perhaps they worked at one of the yards or had relatives or friends that did and have anecdotes they can recall from the era. They may also have noted the locomotives or taken the odd photograph or perhaps have on the mantel piece a plate off one of the locomotives as a family heirloom without realising it is a vital clue in establishing what became of the locomotive it was once affixed too. I have started this topic in the hope that members of the forum who may have not been aware of the project and might recall something that might seem insignificant but might be of great interest to the project can post. At the same time giving an insight into this aspect of local history little known about outside railway enthusiast circles.
  10. In the early SYPTE days some of the Rotherham Daimlers were transferred to Doncaster and Greenland garages although use on 69, 277 & 278 routes resulted in it not always being obvious that this had taken place. For a lesser period a very small number also saw use at Herries and Leadmill. Previously a small number had appeared in Sheffield in 1973 during a period of vehicle shortage. The Daimlers were certainly referred to as 'Rotherham Tankers' by Greenland crews, presumably a reflection of them having a more lively performance when compared with the former Sheffield AEC's and Leylands.
  11. Thought this would be quite easy to answer until I spotted a glaring omission in the published Rotherham Corporation Transport Fleet Histories I consulted. All these omitted the 1952 batch of Crossley Double Deckers! Perhaps the reason for the question? Anyhow, further delving reveals these to be 209 - 214 HET 209-214. However, the chassis numbers are not in numerical sequence when it comes to road registrations and quoted delivery months. 95903 HET 509 209 5/52 95904 HET 510 210 6/52 95905 HET 511 211 6/52 95906 HET 512 212 7/52 95907 HET 514 214 9/52 95908 HET 513 213 8/52 Thus, although 213 was the last Crossley built for Rotherham it was not the last delivered. . As far as I am aware 213 is still tucked away in a bomb proof hanger at the Science Museum store at Wroughton Airfield near Swindon. Public Access is now very restricted if permitted at all. Can't say too much on a public forum other than to say an approach was made about displaying 213 at the Midland Road Open Day in 2014. Unfortunately the hoops were set too high for it to have been practical. The hope had been to display all two and a half surviving RCT Motor buses together but in the event only 135 made it, With so few RCT motor buses surviving it is to be hoped that 213 can return home at some point in the future. The South Yorkshire Transport Museum being an ideal home especially since 220 has departed for Beamish. Hope this digression into Rotherham is within the permitted boundaries of this forum.
  12. Indeed, I was very impressed with the restoration when I saw it at the SYTT Open Day in July. Any one who was able to attend the, what I presume was a very hastily arranged, Open Day at Olive Grove (Eastbank in old money) Depot in September was no doubt shocked to see 287's sister 293. I had presumed 293 UWA 293L was no more but seemingly not. It is now also part of the SYTT collection - another update to the list. Personally, I only heard about the Open Day two weeks before and too late to juggle other commitments. Those usually in the know seeming to know little or nothing about it at that stage either.
  13. Volume One of the book Ribble by T. B. Maud contains the following ".... in July 1973 it was agreed that Ribble would take over the 'local' express services between Manchester and Bradford (X12) , Barnsley (X19) Sheffield (X48) and Mansfield" Although no specific date is given by implication some time during the month of July is presumed as when Ribble replaced North Western Road Car..
  14. The 1973 X48 timetable has Monday to Saturday departures from Manchester ay 07:45, 16:30 (Friday & Saturday only) and 18:30; returning from Sheffield at 09:45, 18:30 (Friday & Saturday and 20:30 which suggests the service on those days was solely operated by Ribble. On Sundays departures where at 11:45, 18:30 and 20:30 from Manchester and 09:45, 18:30 and 20:30 from Sheffield suggested Sheffield Transport had two round trips and Ribble one. Will need to do more checking but presume this was the arrangement until November 7th 1980 when Ribble withdrew as a result of the closure of their Manchester depot.. From then until the service was finally withdrawn on 'De-regulation eve' (25th October 1986) two round trips were operated by SYPTE.
  15. Some delving suggests the change from North Western Road Car to Ribble took place during 1973. The May 1973 Sheffield Area Bus & Rail Timetable which reflects the change of Manchester terminus to Chorlton Street shows the X48 as a joint service with North Western Road Car. The November 1973 though shows as a joint service with Ribble Motor Services. An on line history of North Western Road Car states that from 4th March 1972 the company was purely a coach operator without any stage services at all but did retain a depot in Manchester. It is presumed that the X48 was considered as a coach service due to its distance and limited stops. More delving needed as to what actually happened in 1973. .