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Peter Hall

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Peter Hall last won the day on June 12

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About Peter Hall

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  1. A friend has unearthed what these days we would call a 'flyer' announcing that this summer only service, suspended during WWII would recommence in May 1950. It being operated by North Western. How long it continued for has yet to be established.
  2. Peter Hall

    What's it doing ere

    Done some more digging and discovered an article that I had written titled 'Froggat's Last Bus Service' in the December 1987 (276) M&&T News! Joint operation of the Sheffield - Buxton service between the Corporation and North Western Road Car Company (NWRC) continued until January 1970. Operation then passing wholly to NWRC as a consequence of the 1968 Transport Act. As with the Castleton service NWRC operations passed to Trent Motor Traction Company (TMTC) with effect from 5th March 1972. By the mid 1970's the route was being jointly operated by TMTC and Potteries Motor Traction (PMT) having been amalgamated with the Buxton - Potteries via Axe Edge service. In January 1985 the service was split into two with PMT operating a Sheffield - Potteries service via Owler Bar, Baslow and Bakewell and TMTC operating a Sheffield - Buxton service via the traditional route. The traditional route and service was expected to cease with de-regulation in October 1986. However TMTC continued to operate one journey each way Monday - Saturday until 31st October 1987. .Thus, if TMTC is considered to be the direct descendent of NWRC operation of the Buxton and Castleton routes continued until October 1987 and December 1988 respectively. .
  3. Peter Hall

    What's it doing ere

    I have done some checking in M&T News and established the last date of Trent Motor Traction Company operation on the Sheffield - Castleton 272 was 31st December 1988. Silver Service Group took over operating the former Trent journeys on 3td January 1989 (no service operated on 1st & 2nd January). The Silver Service Group subsequently divested itself of its Baslow based operation which became then became the present day Hulleys. The last day of North Western Road Car Company operation was 4th March 1972, operation of the services to Buxton and Castleton passing to the Trent Motor Traction Company. Need to do some more digging but believe the last Trent Buxton services were withdrawn in October 1987 but the story from 1972 is not straight forward as PMT became involved at some point and continued until more recently I think.
  4. Peter Hall

    What's it doing ere

    Off the top of my head but the following I believe is a possible explanation. The present Sheffield - Castleton 272 service is still jointly operated by First and Hulley''s. c20-30 years ago Hulley's took over journeys previously operated by Trent on the route. Going further back these had been operated by North Western before abortion by Trent. The buses used were I believe based at Matlock but out stationed at Bradwell, this practise continued well into the 1980's at least. The bus in the picture is displaying route 72 which supports it being this route. Currently a Hulley's bus leaves Sheffield at c15:30 and I recall someone with a better knowledge of such things saying that the present day Hulley's timing are very close to those operated by North Western.
  5. Peter Hall

    Victoria Train Station

    Over the years, I believe some confusion has arisen with regard to the January 1973 temporary re-opening of Sheffield Victoria. Was it re-opened for 54 hours or 30 hours? It all seems to hinge on what is meant, in various references, by midnight Saturday (RO 3/73 p.100) and 24:00 on Saturday (Rail Centres Sheffield p.122). I am not sure myself but suspect it was actually only re-opened for 30 hours, that is throughout Sunday 21st January and the first six hours of Monday 22nd.January. Although Unitedite says his photographs were taken on the 20th January, a Saturday, I suspect that they were actually taken on Sunday 21st January. I say this as they appear to picture some unique Sunday trains. The first three pictures show a Class 37 although its number, 6720, can only be made out in one of them. Presuming they are all of the same train , 2J78, then it has to be a Sunday as 2J78 was the Sundays 09:00 Grimsby Town - Sheffield via Retford. A similar train ran on weekdays but was 1J78 and arrived earlier than on a Sunday. 6720 was based at Tinsley at the time so very likely to have been entrusted with the train. The fifth picture shows a 'Trans-Pennine' DMU, at the time the only appearances of these at Sheffield was on Sundays when a set worked 08:55 Hull-Liverpool / 16:50 Liverpool-Hull. Interestingly, in the photographic collection of the late Peter Fox (a known local enthusiast, railway publisher and local councillor) are pictures taken on the 21st January showing the same trains. Can anyone say for certain whether Victoria station was used on 20th January or not? .
  6. I suspect that although mostly filmed in the days/weeks leading up to 4th January 1970 a couple of the line side shots were filmed later. These are the ones showing a van train. This I believe must be 5M54 13:20 Sheffield Nunnery Carriage Sidings - Manchester Ardwick Carriage Sidings empty newspaper vans, This train commencing after the passenger service had been withdrawn as previously the vans were attached to various passenger trains during the day. Of particular interest, to myself at least, is that at about 6:25 their is a clip of a Class 40 hauled passenger train passing through, I think, Deepcar. The formation suggests it is in one of the regular Sheffield - Manchester trains rather than a footex or other special working rather than the Class 37 hauled Harwich Boat Train, a couple of clips of which are included. I have been scratching my head about this one as I suspect it was something Arnold Congreaves was expecting rather than just fell upon whilst out filming. The subject of Newspaper trains via Woodhead at this time has been debated extensively on the 'wnxx forum' http://www.wnxx.com/ in viewtopic.php?f=20&t=10430 and viewtopic.php?f=22&t=11587 . The train under the spotlight their being the 01:17 Manchester Piccadilly - Grimsby Town/Cleethorpes Passenger/Newspapers. Monday to Saturday this was routed via Barnsley and Doncaster after leaving Penistone whilst on Sundays it was routed via Sheffield Victoria and Retford after leaving Penistone where a Grimsby Town / Cleethorpes portion via Barnsley had been detached.. Because of the layout of platforms at Manchester Piccadilly this train departed from those with ac electrification rather than dc electrification as only the ac platforms faced the carriage road from which newspapers were transhipped from road vehicles. Thus, the train left Manchester behind a diesel. Monday to Saturday this was replaced at Guide Bridge by an electric, this being confirmed by enthusiasts who had travelled on the train and by a 1967 LMR WTT I have. At Penistone the electric was replaced by a diesel that had come light from Wath-upon-Dearne depot. What happened on Sundays is less clear though as no eye witness reports have come to light. However the 1967 LMR WTT does not show it as being a locomotive change at Guide Bridge but the ER WTT shows a locomotive change at Sheffield Victoria. The forwarding locomotive having come light from Immingham. The locomotive for the portion detached at Penistone having come light from Wath-upon-Dearne. Perhaps on Sundays the train was actually booked to be worked through to Sheffield Victoria by a diesel, this would explain no locomotive change being shown at Guide Bridge. That being the case could it have been the diesel locomotive returned on the first Sunday train from Sheffield at 09:30? If the 09:30 was regularly diesel hauled I suspect few would be aware of the fact but perhaps Arnold Congreves was and had deliberately gone out to get this particular sequence. As Arnold has two different Harwich Boat Train sequences and also the two sequences of a van train (see above). My hunch is that he had a good knowledge of workings on the route and knew which train was hauled by what. Anyone able to shed more light on the Class 40 working?
  7. Peter Hall

    Royal visits to Sheffield

    Since posting on 5th September we have started a feature on Sheffield Royal Trains on the RCTS website http://www.rcts.org.uk/branches/sheffield/page.htm?id=Sheffield/RoyalTrain At the moment details are sketchy but slowly more is coming to light as note books are scoured and memories jolted. The comment from Old Rider id very interesting. We can actually rule out the 1975 visit as the Royal Train spent the night before and night after the 29th July visit at Firbeck. However, the 1977 visit cant be ruled out yet as a possibility.
  8. Peter Hall

    Royal visits to Sheffield

    At the beginning of this thread it was asked whether a list of Royal visits to Sheffield existed. I have located one through Google but can't work out how to link it. However, if I have clicked on the right things it should be attached to this posting. Royal Visits study guide v1-9.doc
  9. Peter Hall

    Royal visits to Sheffield

    The Silver Jubilee was on 12th July 1977. Certainly the Royal Train passed through Dore at some point that day as I recall seeing it their and I am sure locomotive 47455 was in charge. I think the Hillsborough Park visit you refer to was that on 12th December 1986. I think that would be the only time the Queen visited when bendi-buses were in town.
  10. Peter Hall

    Royal visits to Sheffield

    Thanks Leonr2z. Had not got a Royal Train involvement for the 15th March 1984 visit by the Prince and Princess of Wales. However did some googling etc and it appears the Royal Party arrived by air but departed by rail. I have traced a picture online of what is presume is an empty (except staff) Royal Train passing through Chesterfield in the direction of Sheffield that afternoon. Whilst personally only particularly interested in pictures of the train I am sure pictures of all aspects of the visit would interest many.
  11. Peter Hall

    Royal visits to Sheffield

    Information about Royal visits to Sheffield seems harder to find than I first thought. The subject has though come up recently in a railway context regarding use of the Royal Train in the 1970s and early 1980s in particular. I have rough notes but no pictures of its use on four occasions for visits to Sheffield at that time and wondered if anyone had further details or pictures from that era. The dates and visits for which I have information are:- 29/7/75 - The Queen and Prince Philip arrived and departed from Sheffield Midland station. I saw the train arrive at c16:00 and it is recorded as departing 23:05. Not clear from the reports I have seen whether the Royal Party actually returned to the train mid way through prior to an evening reception at the Cutlers Hall. 12/7/77 - The Queens Silver Jubilee visit. I am fairly sure my observation of the train was at Dore after the visit heading in the direction of Chesterfield. 1/11/79 - The opening of the Royal Hallamshire Hospital by Prince Charles. I saw the train arrive at Sheffield at around 10:00(?) but not sure whether he used the train to return. 19/7/80 - This was the visit by Princess Anne when as well as visiting Manor Top she had an engagement which saw the Royal Train calling at Dore. I have some detailed notes somewhere but can't at the moment find them. I recall though that the Dore visit was probably her first of the day. The train first ran non-stop through Dore from the Sheffield direction to Totley Tunnel East where it reversed before arriving at Dore. I think that after Her Royal Highness alighted the train was either not subsequently used or picked her up again elsewhere. Incidentally, one of Grandmothers earliest memories is of being held above the head of her father so she could see Queen Victoria during the 1897 Royal Visit.
  12. Peter Hall

    Wadsley Bridge Train Station

    The Sheffield Branch page of the RCTS website now has a feature on this topic http://www.rcts.org.uk/branches/sheffield/page.htm?id=sheffield/wbfootex
  13. Peter Hall

    Wadsley Bridge Train Station

    Much debate is taking place on a national railway forum as to the use of Wadsley Bridge station for 'footexs' (trains for football fans) after the Woodhead route closed to regular passenger services in January 1970. The most pressing question is that of when was the station last used for that purpose? My delving so far has come up with 8th January 1994 for the Sheffield Wednesday v Nottingham Forest match. This used 'sprinter' DMUs 156422 + 156467. Does anyone know of any use after that? The last locomotive hauled 'footex' to Wadsley Bridge would appear to have been on 17th March 1993 for the Sheffield Wednesday v Derby County match utilising 47824. The FA Cup semi-finals held at Hillsborough are thought to have always seen Wadsley Bridge footexs in the 1970's and 1980's but still need to unearth more about these. The last was the Middlesbrough v Chesterfield replay on 22nd April 1997. I am not aware of any footexs running for this match although there were some Sheffield (Midland) - Chesterfield reliefs after the match. Of course this match should never have been as clearly Chesterfield had already beaten Middlesborough at Old Trafford but that's another story. Prior to that the previous match was Sunderland v Norwich City on 5th April 1992. Not yet unearthed any notes about this match but probably at least one 'footex' to Wadsley Bridge. Working back the previous semi-final was the one on 15th April 1989 that you will be hearing a lot about in the next few days. I have unearthed the notebook of the late Peter Fox for this day and although it is not clear whether or not it ran to Wadsley Bridge or not he records a footex from Liverpool with 47434. He also records 47447 and 97545 passing through Dore on return footexs later in the day. Thus it is presumed these ran to Sheffield (Midland). Can anyone confirm or add more details. Not so far discovered any more notes about 'f'ootexs' to Wadsley Bridge from 1989 - 1994 but presumably there were others. Any further information would be welcomed. I will post about earlier 'footexs' another time.
  14. I notice that a number of threads exist with regard to the Woodhead route. This though is probably the most appropriate to ask this question. Elsewhere on a railway forum there has been some discussion about Football excursion trains 'Footexs' to Wadsley Bridge routed via Woodhead after the regular Sheffield - Woodhead - Manchester service ceased. That is the era that started just after 'Engines Must Not Enter the Potato Siding' was first broadcast.. It was concluded such trains were routed via Woodhead Tunnnel on at least six occasions, possibly seven, before closure in 1981. I can provide more details if anyone is interested. All these footexs used diesel locomotives through the tunnel as did the weekend passenger diversions off the Hope Valley. Something that could not be answered though was exactly what the arrangement was with train 1E66 01:12 Manchester Piccadilly- Cleethorpes (newspaper & parcels train) between January 1970 and May 1973. From May 1973 it was diverted to run via the Hope Valley. The train was routed via Woodhead to Penistone then via Barnsley, Mexborough and Doncaster. A locomotive change took place at Penistone, Class 31/37 ex Wath-upon-Dearne working forward, but mystery surrounds the locomotive that worked it as far as Penistone. In earlier years it had been steam/diesel to Guide Bridge and then electric to Penistone. This peculiar arrangement was due to it departing from the higher numbered platforms at Manchester Piccadilly which had access for the vans of newspapers hot off the Manchester presses but not electrified at 1500V DC.. The question that no one has been able to answer is what was the arrangement from 1970-1973. Was it still diesel to Guide Bridge and electric forward to Penistone or was it a LMR Diesel (40?) throughout from Manchester Piccadilly to Penistone? The answer may be contained in the working timetable for the route if anyone has one. Interestingly during this period the empty vans returned through Woodhead tunnel as a lunchtime Nunnery sidings to Ardwick sidings which was reputedly diesel hauled. Again this should be confirmed by the working timetable or possibly photographs. From 1973 this train via the Hope Valley and was regularly a Class 40 from May 1974. During its first year (5/73-5/74) I believe it was a Class 25 but no photographs have emerged to confirm this. If both 1E66 and the empties were diesel hauled through the tunnel then it is possible the same locomotive was used for both, again the working timetable might help. Anyone able to help? . ,
  15. I have notes which show that in 1974 that was probably the case on Christmas Day. In fact, in those days Christmas Day was the only day in the year when a Sunday or better service was not operated all day.
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