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Peter Hall

Sheffield History Member
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Peter Hall last won the day on July 20

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About Peter Hall

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  1. Nigel's post prompts me to add the list of survivors from Doncaster and Rotherham Corporations and the independents from these areas.
  2. Known survivors from the SYPTE era are listed below,
  3. Further delving suggests involvement of North Western Road Car Company and Sheffield Transport / Joint Omnibus Committee on routes between Sheffield and Manchester is quite complex and an element of blurring of references between the routes may have crept in. Working South to North this is how I know understand the post World War II history. 72 via Mam Tor Summer only extension of Sheffield - Castleton service. All journeys beyond Castleton operated by North Western. Operated from 1950 - 1966. 39 via Snake Pass Summer only service that appears to have been jointly operated between North Western and SJOC. Operated from 1950 - 1966. There after SJIOC operated a Summer Sunday service from Sheffield to Snake Inn. 48 via Woodhead Daily service operated solely by SJOC until 31/12/69. Chas Hall's book says that a result of the 1968 Transport Act was that it became jointly operated between STD and the NBC. The NBC subsidiary involved was presumably North Western. Certainly they were involved from 3/1/71 when the Manchester terminus was changed to Lower Mosely Street. At some point North Western were replaced by Ribble Motor Services. This may have been 4/3/72 when North Western Manchester area local services passed to SELNEC or 4/5/73 when the Manchester terminus was altered to Chorlton Street. From 8/1/80 operation was solely by SYPTE until the service was withdrawn after operation on 25/10/86.. Corrections and clarifications welcomed.
  4. In preparedness' for the South Yorkshire Transport Trust Open Day on Sunday I have been updating my lists of surviving buses with a local connection. Having now found away to convert and save these in a compatible format for this forum I can now make these available. The first can be found below and lists the survivors that were once in the fleets of Sheffield Transport Department / Joint Omnibus Committee,
  5. Peter Hall

    AEC Swift end of service tour

    It is planned that Paul Fox will have the same display he mounted at the Midland Road Open Day in 2014 dusted off and displayed at the South Yorkshire Transport Trust Open Day this coming Sunday (22nd July) http://www.sytt.org.uk/summer-open-day Paul will be very pleased to receive leads regarding the identifications of those still to be identified in the photograph.
  6. Last July the South Yorkshire Transport Trust held its first Open Day at its Eastwood, Rotherham premises. Although very well attended, many who would have liked to have visited were not aware of its happening. Fortunately another Open Day is being held this coming Sunday, 22nd July. See http://www.sytt.org.uk/summer-open-day for further details. An impressive collection of buses that operated in South Yorkshire during the glory days of the SYPTE era (1974-86) are housed at Eastwood as well as from earlier and later eras. In addition other vehicles with local connections are expected to be making an appearance during the day. The South Yorkshire Transport Trust is on a completely different site to the South Yorkshire Transport Museum https://sytm.co.uk/index.html which is close by and has Open Days monthly throughout the year. This also has an impressive collection of buses that operated in the locality.
  7. The answer would appear to be until the Summer of 1968. This information being contained in http://www.lthlibrary.org.uk/library/PDF-014-1.pdf which mentions that the X39 Sheffield - Manchester via Snake Pass summer only service was also withdrawn then. These services were jointly operated by Sheffiield Joint Omnibus Committee and North Western Road Car Company. This left the X48 as the only Sheffield-Manchester service which by then I am presuming was similarly jointly operated. My earliest recollections of the X48 in the mid 1970's were of it being jointly operated by South Yorkshire PTE and Ribble Motor Services. Ribble pulled out after operation on 7th November 1980 leaving SYPTE to soldier on alone until its last day of operation, 25th October 1986. I presume Ribble took over from North Western on 5th March 1972 but initially may have been under National Travel North West guise - more digging needed. .
  8. A friend has unearthed what these days we would call a 'flyer' announcing that this summer only service, suspended during WWII would recommence in May 1950. It being operated by North Western. How long it continued for has yet to be established.
  9. Peter Hall

    What's it doing ere

    Done some more digging and discovered an article that I had written titled 'Froggat's Last Bus Service' in the December 1987 (276) M&&T News! Joint operation of the Sheffield - Buxton service between the Corporation and North Western Road Car Company (NWRC) continued until January 1970. Operation then passing wholly to NWRC as a consequence of the 1968 Transport Act. As with the Castleton service NWRC operations passed to Trent Motor Traction Company (TMTC) with effect from 5th March 1972. By the mid 1970's the route was being jointly operated by TMTC and Potteries Motor Traction (PMT) having been amalgamated with the Buxton - Potteries via Axe Edge service. In January 1985 the service was split into two with PMT operating a Sheffield - Potteries service via Owler Bar, Baslow and Bakewell and TMTC operating a Sheffield - Buxton service via the traditional route. The traditional route and service was expected to cease with de-regulation in October 1986. However TMTC continued to operate one journey each way Monday - Saturday until 31st October 1987. .Thus, if TMTC is considered to be the direct descendent of NWRC operation of the Buxton and Castleton routes continued until October 1987 and December 1988 respectively. .
  10. Peter Hall

    What's it doing ere

    I have done some checking in M&T News and established the last date of Trent Motor Traction Company operation on the Sheffield - Castleton 272 was 31st December 1988. Silver Service Group took over operating the former Trent journeys on 3td January 1989 (no service operated on 1st & 2nd January). The Silver Service Group subsequently divested itself of its Baslow based operation which became then became the present day Hulleys. The last day of North Western Road Car Company operation was 4th March 1972, operation of the services to Buxton and Castleton passing to the Trent Motor Traction Company. Need to do some more digging but believe the last Trent Buxton services were withdrawn in October 1987 but the story from 1972 is not straight forward as PMT became involved at some point and continued until more recently I think.
  11. Peter Hall

    What's it doing ere

    Off the top of my head but the following I believe is a possible explanation. The present Sheffield - Castleton 272 service is still jointly operated by First and Hulley''s. c20-30 years ago Hulley's took over journeys previously operated by Trent on the route. Going further back these had been operated by North Western before abortion by Trent. The buses used were I believe based at Matlock but out stationed at Bradwell, this practise continued well into the 1980's at least. The bus in the picture is displaying route 72 which supports it being this route. Currently a Hulley's bus leaves Sheffield at c15:30 and I recall someone with a better knowledge of such things saying that the present day Hulley's timing are very close to those operated by North Western.
  12. Peter Hall

    Victoria Train Station

    Over the years, I believe some confusion has arisen with regard to the January 1973 temporary re-opening of Sheffield Victoria. Was it re-opened for 54 hours or 30 hours? It all seems to hinge on what is meant, in various references, by midnight Saturday (RO 3/73 p.100) and 24:00 on Saturday (Rail Centres Sheffield p.122). I am not sure myself but suspect it was actually only re-opened for 30 hours, that is throughout Sunday 21st January and the first six hours of Monday 22nd.January. Although Unitedite says his photographs were taken on the 20th January, a Saturday, I suspect that they were actually taken on Sunday 21st January. I say this as they appear to picture some unique Sunday trains. The first three pictures show a Class 37 although its number, 6720, can only be made out in one of them. Presuming they are all of the same train , 2J78, then it has to be a Sunday as 2J78 was the Sundays 09:00 Grimsby Town - Sheffield via Retford. A similar train ran on weekdays but was 1J78 and arrived earlier than on a Sunday. 6720 was based at Tinsley at the time so very likely to have been entrusted with the train. The fifth picture shows a 'Trans-Pennine' DMU, at the time the only appearances of these at Sheffield was on Sundays when a set worked 08:55 Hull-Liverpool / 16:50 Liverpool-Hull. Interestingly, in the photographic collection of the late Peter Fox (a known local enthusiast, railway publisher and local councillor) are pictures taken on the 21st January showing the same trains. Can anyone say for certain whether Victoria station was used on 20th January or not? .
  13. I suspect that although mostly filmed in the days/weeks leading up to 4th January 1970 a couple of the line side shots were filmed later. These are the ones showing a van train. This I believe must be 5M54 13:20 Sheffield Nunnery Carriage Sidings - Manchester Ardwick Carriage Sidings empty newspaper vans, This train commencing after the passenger service had been withdrawn as previously the vans were attached to various passenger trains during the day. Of particular interest, to myself at least, is that at about 6:25 their is a clip of a Class 40 hauled passenger train passing through, I think, Deepcar. The formation suggests it is in one of the regular Sheffield - Manchester trains rather than a footex or other special working rather than the Class 37 hauled Harwich Boat Train, a couple of clips of which are included. I have been scratching my head about this one as I suspect it was something Arnold Congreaves was expecting rather than just fell upon whilst out filming. The subject of Newspaper trains via Woodhead at this time has been debated extensively on the 'wnxx forum' http://www.wnxx.com/ in viewtopic.php?f=20&t=10430 and viewtopic.php?f=22&t=11587 . The train under the spotlight their being the 01:17 Manchester Piccadilly - Grimsby Town/Cleethorpes Passenger/Newspapers. Monday to Saturday this was routed via Barnsley and Doncaster after leaving Penistone whilst on Sundays it was routed via Sheffield Victoria and Retford after leaving Penistone where a Grimsby Town / Cleethorpes portion via Barnsley had been detached.. Because of the layout of platforms at Manchester Piccadilly this train departed from those with ac electrification rather than dc electrification as only the ac platforms faced the carriage road from which newspapers were transhipped from road vehicles. Thus, the train left Manchester behind a diesel. Monday to Saturday this was replaced at Guide Bridge by an electric, this being confirmed by enthusiasts who had travelled on the train and by a 1967 LMR WTT I have. At Penistone the electric was replaced by a diesel that had come light from Wath-upon-Dearne depot. What happened on Sundays is less clear though as no eye witness reports have come to light. However the 1967 LMR WTT does not show it as being a locomotive change at Guide Bridge but the ER WTT shows a locomotive change at Sheffield Victoria. The forwarding locomotive having come light from Immingham. The locomotive for the portion detached at Penistone having come light from Wath-upon-Dearne. Perhaps on Sundays the train was actually booked to be worked through to Sheffield Victoria by a diesel, this would explain no locomotive change being shown at Guide Bridge. That being the case could it have been the diesel locomotive returned on the first Sunday train from Sheffield at 09:30? If the 09:30 was regularly diesel hauled I suspect few would be aware of the fact but perhaps Arnold Congreves was and had deliberately gone out to get this particular sequence. As Arnold has two different Harwich Boat Train sequences and also the two sequences of a van train (see above). My hunch is that he had a good knowledge of workings on the route and knew which train was hauled by what. Anyone able to shed more light on the Class 40 working?
  14. Peter Hall

    Royal visits to Sheffield

    Since posting on 5th September we have started a feature on Sheffield Royal Trains on the RCTS website http://www.rcts.org.uk/branches/sheffield/page.htm?id=Sheffield/RoyalTrain At the moment details are sketchy but slowly more is coming to light as note books are scoured and memories jolted. The comment from Old Rider id very interesting. We can actually rule out the 1975 visit as the Royal Train spent the night before and night after the 29th July visit at Firbeck. However, the 1977 visit cant be ruled out yet as a possibility.
  15. Peter Hall

    Royal visits to Sheffield

    At the beginning of this thread it was asked whether a list of Royal visits to Sheffield existed. I have located one through Google but can't work out how to link it. However, if I have clicked on the right things it should be attached to this posting. Royal Visits study guide v1-9.doc
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