Jump to content

117/119 WestBar


Stuart0742

Recommended Posts

Ukelele Lady mentioned this property in the Date-Stones topic

Does anybody know anything about it. It was next to the Britannia Theatre ( Now West Bar Motors)

The thing both Ukelele lady and myself have noticed is the Date Stone, or is it a Date Stone?

Any comments

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From Historical Directories.org:

White's 1879

117-9 West Bar

Popplewell John R. carrier

White's 1901

117 West Bar

Barlow Miss Mary Ann saddler

119 West Bar

Wright Marshall & Co curriers

from Sheffield Indexers:

White's 1911

315 London Road & 117 & 119 West Bar.

Wright, E. (leather merchants (& Sons)).

Hugh

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From Historical Directories.org:

White's 1879

117-9 West Bar

Popplewell John R. carrier

White's 1901

117 West Bar

Barlow Miss Mary Ann saddler

119 West Bar

Wright Marshall & Co curriers

from Sheffield Indexers:

White's 1911

315 London Road & 117 & 119 West Bar.

Wright, E. (leather merchants (& Sons)).

Hugh

Hugh

What do think of the date stone, is it 1794, what is the significance of the "j"

Stuart

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My feeling is that it is a '1', with a curl in the 'tail' like the 9.

Hugh

The "j" or "1" is the same size as the "4", I see it know so 1794

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The "j" or "1" is the same size as the "4", I see it know so 1794

If it is a date stone then the J can only possibly be the number 1 to give a sensible date, but somehow it still doesn't look right.

even given that the 1(J) and 4 are the same size at either end and the &( are bigger in the centre it still looks like a J to me.

"Curling is usually only done on certain digits, with a 1 curling would normally done to an elongated upstroke to the top of the figure, the bottom being straight, - like the French do their 1's like our 7's.

One thought, in 1752 we changed our calendar from Julian to Gregorian which caused much protest and upset due to the loss of certain days in that year and because the newer, more accurate Gregorian calendar had come from the church of Rome (Pope Gregory). As Britain was not a Catholic country at this time many devout Protestants refused to accept it for many years.

Could the year be 1794 writen without the one as '794 and being given a leading J to indicate defiantly sticking to the Julian calendar, ie, does it mean "1794 on the old Julian calendar"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The stone is a curious shape as well, why the drop ends? It also doesn't look as if it is in its original position and I'm wondering if it related to something else like 'yard J bin 794' ??? if you get my drift, or could it have been a registration mark of some trade such as the leather merchant or the couriers mentioned above as previous occupants - it could have been found inside the building and added to the front as part of someone's refurbishment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could the year be 1794 writen without the one as '794 and being given a leading J to indicate defiantly sticking to the Julian calendar, ie, does it mean "1794 on the old Julian calendar"?
Not out of the question, but the Gregorian calendar only jumped about 11 days during the autumn of 1752 so it's not as if it was several years out.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If it is a date stone then the J can only possibly be the number 1 to give a sensible date, but somehow it still doesn't look right.

even given that the 1(J) and 4 are the same size at either end and the &( are bigger in the centre it still looks like a J to me.

"Curling is usually only done on certain digits, with a 1 curling would normally done to an elongated upstroke to the top of the figure, the bottom being straight, - like the French do their 1's like our 7's.

One thought, in 1752 we changed our calendar from Julian to Gregorian which caused much protest and upset due to the loss of certain days in that year and because the newer, more accurate Gregorian calendar had come from the church of Rome (Pope Gregory). As Britain was not a Catholic country at this time many devout Protestants refused to accept it for many years.

Could the year be 1794 writen without the one as '794 and being given a leading J to indicate defiantly sticking to the Julian calendar, ie, does it mean "1794 on the old Julian calendar"?

I see I've opened a can of worms here. Thanks Stuart for taking the picture, you've saved me a journey.

It does look like a J to me but being as it's small in size like the 4 I'd say it was 1794.

DaveHs theory sounds reasonable too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've just looked on the Old Maps web site http://www.old-maps.co.uk/ maps of 1855 and although you can't take buildings on them too literally they do appear to be alligned differently to the current layout. Do you think these maps help at all either way?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see I've opened a can of worms here. Thanks Stuart for taking the picture, you've saved me a journey.

It does look like a J to me but being as it's small in size like the 4 I'd say it was 1794.

DaveHs theory sounds reasonable too.

I think we can safely say that, IF IT IS A DATE STONE, then it is definately 1794.

It could just be 1794 in some strange stylish font.

It could be '794, regardless of this being G1794 or J1794 it would most likely be the same year. Yes there are only 11 days difference between the 2 calendars but at the same time New Years Day was moved to January 1st. Before that it had been in March at the Vernal Equinox. This would make about 3 months difference and lead to the "dual dating" system used on some old documents, eg Feb 1756/57. However big the difference though I am not questioning that the last 3 figures are 794 which would mean 1794 in anybodys book.

However, can we be sure, certainly in light of the previous post by mike142sl that it is definately a date stone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Would it help to know when the now demolished music hall was built which stood at the side of this building?

Maybe they were built at the same time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...