Edmund Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I hope someone can explain what a "Swing Grinder" was - my grandfather was one at Edgar Allens. What equipment would he have used? to what purpose? I believe he worked on stainless steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old rider Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 A swing grinder had a cradle with a motor at one end driving a grinding wheel via a belt at the other. This assembly was suspended on a chain and had 2 handles at the grindstone end for the operator to swing it around. After a billet from the melting shop had been tested and found to have cracks the job of the swing grinder operator was grind out the cracks before the billet went to be forged to a size suitable for the rolling mill. The swing grinders shop at the steel works I was an apprentice at was a dark hell hole with the atmosphere full of steel dust. When one of the swing grinders broke down you could hear the operator wheezing with his lungs full of steel dust before he reached the maintenance shop to report the breakdown. Then some unfortunate drew the short straw to have to go and find out what was wrong. We had to wear the "Martindale" mask supplied and goggles to even enter the place and got out a fast as we could! I am sorry for your Grandfather if that was what he did for a living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmund Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Thanks for that Old Rider. Grandad lived to the age of 87 and never had any breathing problems, so I guess luck played a part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysander Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Another frequent effect of swing grinding was early onset deafness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old rider Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Each of our swing grinders was in a sort of booth that was open at the front with an extraction pipe taken from the top that must have helped to reduce the fog. After I left I read that the "Martindale" masks had been considered ineffective. They consisted of a thin aluminium plate with a slot about where the mouth was and a cut out for nose. A sort of replaceable lint material piece was fitted inside and the assembly was held in place by a piece of elastic round the back of the head. Perhaps Edgar Allen bought better dust masks for their employees than our cheap jacks who wouldn't spend a penny if they didn't have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickdioxide Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 At Edgar Allens on Shepcote Lane one of the buildings was referred to as the Tramway Shop-a new building in 1977. At the south end there were 2/3 swing grinding bays where very hard manganese steel castings of railway crossovers were cleaned up and fettled before being ground. These crossovers are to be found still used on rail and tram systems all over the world. Some have their dates visible as far back as least 1977 See photos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysander Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 The 11/14% manganese steel used in these crossings and frogs ,at Sir Robert Hadfields suggestion ( both Hadfield's and Edgar Allen melted and supplied 11/14% manganese steel... which was wear resistant and non-magnetic), became the steel used in the "tin helmets" worn by British troops in WW1 and 2 ( they were called Brodie helmets) Edgar Allen's production was latterly transferred to North British Steel up in Bathgate,Scotland...who supplied all the crossings for Supertram.. I believe they closed in 2002 and I am not sure if the country that invented the steel still manufactures the quality??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveHB Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Advert from 1926 "> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old rider Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 The 11/14% manganese steel used in these crossings and frogs ,at Sir Robert Hadfields suggestion ( both Hadfield's and Edgar Allen melted and supplied 11/14% manganese steel... which was wear resistant and non-magnetic), became the steel used in the "tin helmets" worn by British troops in WW1 and 2 ( they were called Brodie helmets) Edgar Allen's production was latterly transferred to North British Steel up in Bathgate,Scotland...who supplied all the crossings for Supertram.. I believe they closed in 2002 and I am not sure if the country that invented the steel still manufactures the quality??? I used to go to Balfour Beatty Rail factory at Sandiacre where they made track, and points. We heated a metre of rail to about 900C to allow it to be reshaped to connect to rail of a different profile. They exported track around the world, I remember some of the rail profiles were to U.S. and Canadian standards. At that time the rails were rolled in Workington but the Workington factory had been taken over by a French company who ran it or a time but closed it when UK Railtrack announced a big track replacement programme. The usual French tactic of buying and closing to keep French exports up. Therefore I think you are right to assume we don't make steel of the quality required for rails. However I if I remember correctly Balfour Beatty laid the tracks for Supertram so why didn't they use track that was made in their own factory with rails rolled in Workington? The Sandiacre factory appears to be still in production but has been transferred by Balfour Beatty to another UK company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysander Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 The manganese steel shouldn't be thought of as "rail steel". Rail quality material was actually melted and rolled in Sheffield by Charles Cammell who moved production to Workington and saved £60,000 per annum in transport charges by moving their workforce and siting the new production plant nearer a port...which also was close to the iron ore mines to feed their furnaces. United Steels before they were nationalised and became BSC were the major rail producers in the UK. Rail steel was normally a plain carbon steel , often "acid" quality, with a carbon content of around 0.60/0.65%, although some Continental railways specified material with a higher carbon conent. Incidentally, after the rails had worn sufficiently to become unusable ,even on the quietest of sidings, many thousands of tons were then re-rolled into a flat strip ( 3" x 3/16") and formed into rail-clips for holding bullhead rails in their chairs. (George Turton Platts and Toledo Woodhead Springs had the contracts for these clips from British Railways... You will note that the steel industry has always been to the forefront with recycling!) I believe rail production was transferred to the former BSC plant , now known as TATA, in Scunthorpe, at some point. Manganese steel was only ever used where heavy wear and abrasion might be expected such as rail points and crossings. Manganese steel was quite difficult to scrap...It is non-magnetic and if cut by an oxy-propane or acetyline torch it gives off noxious dark and choking fumes. Years ago, those working it were plied with copious drinks of......milk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madannie77 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I used to go to Balfour Beatty Rail factory at Sandiacre where they made track, and points. We heated a metre of rail to about 900C to allow it to be reshaped to connect to rail of a different profile. They exported track around the world, I remember some of the rail profiles were to U.S. and Canadian standards. At that time the rails were rolled in Workington but the Workington factory had been taken over by a French company who ran it or a time but closed it when UK Railtrack announced a big track replacement programme. The usual French tactic of buying and closing to keep French exports up. Therefore I think you are right to assume we don't make steel of the quality required for rails. However I if I remember correctly Balfour Beatty laid the tracks for Supertram so why didn't they use track that was made in their own factory with rails rolled in Workington? The Sandiacre factory appears to be still in production but has been transferred by Balfour Beatty to another UK company. At the time of its closure the Workington Steelworks was owned by Corus, an Anglo-Dutch company formed by the merger of British Steel and Koninklijke Hoogovens. No French involvement at all. The factory closed in 2006 with production moving to Scunthorpe. This was four years after the demise of Railtrack. Rail used in the UK is still made at the Tata Steelworks in Scunthorpe or made in France from steel made at Scunthorpe depending on the requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old rider Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 At the time of its closure the Workington Steelworks was owned by Corus, an Anglo-Dutch company formed by the merger of British Steel and Koninklijke Hoogovens. No French involvement at all. The factory closed in 2006 with production moving to Scunthorpe. This was four years after the demise of Railtrack. Rail used in the UK is still made at the Tata Steelworks in Scunthorpe or made in France from steel made at Scunthorpe depending on the requirements. Sorry it looks as if I remembered what happened wrongly. I was sure that Balfour Beatty were very concerned that their rails would have to come from France after Workington closed. I only ever repaired plant in the melting shop labs at Scunthorpe so I don't know what happened on the rest of the site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madannie77 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 It is possible that the rail could come from France: it depends what type of rail is being used as Scunthorpe and the plant in France make different types of rail. THe rail used on the new Borders Railway line from Edinburgh to Tweedbank came from Scunthorpe, but Crossrail in London is using French rail (made from Scunthorpe steel, however) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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