Steam engines in the Rivelin Valley.

[Waterside Echo]

The last time the dams in the Rivelin Valley were dredged steam engines were used. This job took a couple of years at least, does anyone remember when this was. The engines used were road legal and could be seen parked up at night in a field at the side of the King Edward hospital. W/E.

[Bayleaf]

The last time the dams in the Rivelin Valley were dredged steam engines were used. This job took a couple of years at least, does anyone remember when this was. The engines used were road legal and could be seen parked up at night in a field at the side of the King Edward hospital. W/E.

Don't know about Rivelin but the dam at Shepherd Wheel was dredged in the early 70's I think, using two ploughing engines on the main path with cables strung on trees. I've got a photo somewhere, I'll go and have a search!

[DaveH]

The last time the dams in the Rivelin Valley were dredged steam engines were used. This job took a couple of years at least, does anyone remember when this was. The engines used were road legal and could be seen parked up at night in a field at the side of the King Edward hospital. W/E.

So it had to be done by traction engines then and not by a purpose built steam powered pumping station to shift the water?

I was under the impression that most waterway installations for moving water about were fixed and used large stationary engines.

However dredging, which usually involves removing silt, weeds. collected debris and assorted rubbish from out of the water did use mobile engines due to the nature of the work.

[DaveH]

Don't know about Rivelin but the dam at Shepherd Wheel was dredged in the early 70's I think, using two ploughing engines on the main path with cables strung on trees. I've got a photo somewhere, I'll go and have a search!

Ploughing engines such as the Fowler BB1 would have been ideal for dredging.

The engines work in pairs, being built as left and right hand ploughing engines. Both engines have a large drum of coiled cable mounted under the boiler (visible in these pictures)

Each engine can feed out its cable to the other one and then draw it back under the power of the engine, applying a large pulling force capable of ploughing earth, uprooting trees, pulling down buildings and of course, dredging.

With an engine either side of the water and pulling a dredge across it from side to side they would clear the water of problems.

As the force is capable of felling trees I dont see why the cables would not to be connected between trees, - the engines are capable of handling the cable by themselves on their own drum.

[DaveH]

Ploughing engines such as the Fowler BB1 would have been ideal for dredging.

A Fowler BB1 engine pictured at Sheffield Steam Rally 2006

Funny how people always want to see whats behind that round door on the front of the smokebox which is locked with those 2 mysterious little handles. lol

[RichardB]

The last time the dams in the Rivelin Valley were dredged steam engines were used. This job took a couple of years at least, does anyone remember when this was. The engines used were road legal and could be seen parked up at night in a field at the side of the King Edward hospital. W/E.

How often do they dredge damns please ?

[Waterside Echo]

So it had to be done by traction engines then and not by a purpose built steam powered pumping station to shift the water?

I was under the impression that most waterway installations for moving water about were fixed and used large stationary engines.

However dredging, which usually involves removing silt, weeds. collected debris and assorted rubbish from out of the water did use mobile engines due to the nature of the work.

Dave. Working down from Rivelin post office there would be half a dozen or so small mill dams, these were emptied before the dredging started. The engines looked as though they were nearing the end of their working life, but they finished the job. I would imagine that they must have been amongst the last working road legal steam engines in the area. W/E.

[Bayleaf]

Ploughing engines such as the Fowler BB1 would have been ideal for dredging.

The engines work in pairs, being built as left and right hand ploughing engines. Both engines have a large drum of coiled cable mounted under the boiler (visible in these pictures)

Each engine can feed out its cable to the other one and then draw it back under the power of the engine, applying a large pulling force capable of ploughing earth, uprooting trees, pulling down buildings and of course, dredging.

With an engine either side of the water and pulling a dredge across it from side to side they would clear the water of problems.

As the force is capable of felling trees I dont see why the cables would not to be connected between trees, - the engines are capable of handling the cable by themselves on their own drum.

Found em!

Because of the position of the dam at Shepherd Wheel it wasn't possible to get machinery next to the water. Behind the engines in the pictures is the river and the high bank is the dam wall. At one end of the dam is the little bridge on Hangingwater Rd, and at the other end are the mill buildings, so there was a system of pulleys rigged with the engines on the main path below the dam wall. I can't give any details as I'm passing on the comments and photos from a friend who took them.

[Waterside Echo]

Found em!

Because of the position of the dam at Shepherd Wheel it wasn't possible to get machinery next to the water. Behind the engines in the pictures is the river and the high bank is the dam wall. At one end of the dam is the little bridge on Hangingwater Rd, and at the other end are the mill buildings, so there was a system of pulleys rigged with the engines on the main path below the dam wall. I can't give any details as I'm passing on the comments and photos from a friend who took them.

Thankyou Bayleaf, they look as though they were the ones. Would`nt health and safety have a birthday with those two today!

[Bayleaf]

How often do they dredge damns please ?

I think the simple answer is not often enough. Silting has been and still is a major problem, and a frequent souce of neglect, once the dams cease to serve a 'useful' purpose. Forge Dam is perhaps the worst, turning rapidly into a 'wetland'. Forge dam is a rarity in this area because the stream runs directly into the dam, as opposed to having water drawn off above a weir. The result is it silts up rapidly. The council built a silt trap a little way upstream to cure the problem but it hasn't worked, not least because the trap wasn't emptied regularly.

Shepherd Wheel dam does take water from above a weir, but has silted up badly due in large part to years worth of accumulated dead leaves from overhanging trees, one of the reasons that the trees have been cut back now the dam's being dredged.. The dam upstream from Shepherd Wheel has now silted up completely, and is covered by silver birch.

[hilldweller]

I think the simple answer is not often enough. Silting has been and still is a major problem, and a frequent souce of neglect, once the dams cease to serve a 'useful' purpose. Forge Dam is perhaps the worst, turning rapidly into a 'wetland'. Forge dam is a rarity in this area because the stream runs directly into the dam, as opposed to having water drawn off above a weir. The result is it silts up rapidly. The council built a silt trap a little way upstream to cure the problem but it hasn't worked, not least because the trap wasn't emptied regularly.

Shepherd Wheel dam does take water from above a weir, but has silted up badly due in large part to years worth of accumulated dead leaves from overhanging trees, one of the reasons that the trees have been cut back now the dam's being dredged.. The dam upstream from Shepherd Wheel has now silted up completely, and is covered by silver birch.

When I was a young child in the 1950's it was possible to walk almost right across the Havelock Dam in the lower Rivelin Valley. That is the one with an road entrance at the south end of the Walkley Bank Plantation (Donkey Woods), nowadays dredged and used for fishing.

There were no trees of any great size growing in it but it was covered in a thick layer of vegetation which must have been floating on the water below. As you walked on it it moved around under your feet. The weed was the strange stuff like minature bamboo with a serrated edge to the joints between each section.

It was possible to walk within about ten feet of the far bank where the weed cleared to leave open water. Luckily we never fell through it !

HD

[DaveH]

Found em!

Because of the position of the dam at Shepherd Wheel it wasn't possible to get machinery next to the water. Behind the engines in the pictures is the river and the high bank is the dam wall. At one end of the dam is the little bridge on Hangingwater Rd, and at the other end are the mill buildings, so there was a system of pulleys rigged with the engines on the main path below the dam wall. I can't give any details as I'm passing on the comments and photos from a friend who took them.

Yes these are Fowler ploughing engines.

Your description of their use in confined space explains why the rope was directed over pulleys and around trees. That would be a practical way of doing it.

The one on the left is definately a Fowler BB1, their classic 25 ton engine of this type. The other other one appears to be but as both engines show no identifying markings such as road number plate, nameplate, owners plate or manufacturers engine number I cannot give any further details about these particular engines.

However, if these engines were still around in the early 1970's it is more than likely that they made into preservation than into the scrap yard and may still be around today.

Nice set of pictures of ploughing engines at work.

Many thanks for posting them.

[DaveH]

Thankyou Bayleaf, they look as though they were the ones. Would`nt health and safety have a birthday with those two today!

Probably not,

These engines are still road legal today and have to comply with very strict testing to remain so.

Most traction engines will display 3 discs rather than just one, these are, -

1. A Road Tax Disc, same as car, taxed usually as an agricultural vehicle (used to be £40), requires usual vehicle tax conditions of test + insurance

2. A boiler test certificate

3. An insurance certificate for cover aginst sparks and ashes damage and explosion.

More usually these days an NTET disc (National Traction Engine Trust) will be displayed which can only be obtained after satisfying all 3 of the above.

Ploughing engines are essentially Agricultural engines and are not really designed for the road. They have metal wheels fitted with "strakes" to increase grip and may even be fitted with "spuds" in particularly muddy fields to further increase grip / traction. These hard metal grips, fitted to a 25 ton vehicle, can do a lot of damage to a relatively soft tarmac road surface.

[DaveH]

A Fowler BB1 engine pictured at Sheffield Steam Rally 2006

Funny how people always want to see whats behind that round door on the front of the smokebox which is locked with those 2 mysterious little handles.

Now if you really want to know what is inside one of them

[DaveH]

A Fowler BB1 engine pictured at Sheffield Steam Rally 2006

Funny how people always want to see whats behind that round door on the front of the smokebox which is locked with those 2 mysterious little handles.

Another view, same engine, same rally but showing more detail of the ploughing cable drum

{sorry, image uploader seems not to be working at present}

[DaveH]

<!--quoteo(post=62564:date=Mar 4 2010, 09:03 PM:name=DaveH)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DaveH @ Mar 4 2010, 09:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=62564"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A Fowler BB1 engine pictured at Sheffield Steam Rally 2006

Funny how people always want to see whats behind that round door on the front of the smokebox which is locked with those 2 mysterious little handles. <img src="http://www.sheffieldhistory.co.uk/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Another view, same engine, same rally but showing more detail of the ploughing cable drum

{sorry, image uploader seems not to be working at present}

It works now, must have been affected by the recent upgrade to the site.

Last nights failure to upload was on the old look site

Todays successful upload was on the new look site

[Bayleaf]

Probably not,

These engines are still road legal today and have to comply with very strict testing to remain so.

Most traction engines will display 3 discs rather than just one, these are, -

1. A Road Tax Disc, same as car, taxed usually as an agricultural vehicle (used to be £40), requires usual vehicle tax conditions of test + insurance

2. A boiler test certificate

3. An insurance certificate for cover aginst sparks and ashes damage and explosion.

More usually these days an NTET disc (National Traction Engine Trust) will be displayed which can only be obtained after satisfying all 3 of the above.

Ploughing engines are essentially Agricultural engines and are not really designed for the road. They have metal wheels fitted with "strakes" to increase grip and may even be fitted with "spuds" in particularly muddy fields to further increase grip / traction. These hard metal grips, fitted to a 25 ton vehicle, can do a lot of damage to a relatively soft tarmac road surface.

I don't know if you've come across it Dave but there's a book called Yesterday's Farm by Valerie Porter, which has some photos of engines ploughing, threshing etc, along with a couple of the teams,and short descriptions of the work. There are several copies in the Libraries.

[DaveH]

I don't know if you've come across it Dave but there's a book called Yesterday's Farm by Valerie Porter, which has some photos of engines ploughing, threshing etc, along with a couple of the teams,and short descriptions of the work. There are several copies in the Libraries.

I have quite a few books on steam engines used for road and farm work but I haven't come across that one.

Will have to look out for it.

[Wadsleyite]

Having only just seen this thread (been abroad for quite a while!) I looked in my diary. I have a note that traction engines began to dredge the dams in Rivelin Valley in February 1967. :-)

[Athy]

I saw two Fowler ploughing engines dredging a lake in the late 1990s. They belonged to a haulage company who operated modern lorries but whose proprietors were steam enthusiasts. They were based in Jarvis Brook, Sussex.

[viking]

 I remember the rivelin dredgers from when we used to go fishing up there. We often stopped to look at them on our way home. They were left overnight at one of the dams but I can't remember which one now. They were still hot from their day's work, and we warmed our hands on them. Gently simmering with wisps of steam. They were definitely both Fowler engines, And it must have been in the early sixties.